Corporate Strategy
Corporate Strategy
132. Maximise Your PTO Strategies
Imagine a world where you can control your devices with just your thoughts. In this episode, we dive into the groundbreaking technology of Neuralink's latest brain implant product. We share an intriguing story of how a fully paralyzed patient can now play video games faster than using traditional methods. This segment not only highlights the potential for those with disabilities but also stirs a conversation about the ethical considerations and the human tendency to both fear and adapt to new technologies.
Shifting gears, we tackle the nuances of Paid Time Off (PTO) policies and effective strategies for requesting time off. Learn about the psychological impacts of various PTO systems, the importance of truly disconnecting from work, and how setting boundaries can lead to better rest and recovery. Plus, hear a candid discussion on toxic management with a personal anecdote that underscores the negative impact of micromanaging bosses. Don't miss out on joining our Discord community for more engagement and collaboration.
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Oh hey, hey guys, welcome back. Welcome back to another episode of CorporateStrategybiz.
Speaker 2:No, this is what happens if I don't talk first this is why I always have to talk first.
Speaker 1:This is your fault. You left it open. I gave you a chance. You knew this was going to happen.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't. I thought let's see what Clark's going to bring to the table. If I just go silent, let's see what happens. I didn't expect the freight train to roll off the station.
Speaker 1:Listen, you know me well enough to know that was going to happen. You can't just leave a door open for me to just squander it, because I'm going to squander it.
Speaker 2:It's going to be great. Clark sees an open door. Clark kicks the open air as if the door was still closed.
Speaker 1:Clark, breaches an open door. You know what I want. What I want the intro music Fast forward it.
Speaker 2:Like stupid fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like ridiculously fast one of these episodes. I think it'd be hilarious. I can do that, we can make that happen.
Speaker 2:This is the perfect episode to do it?
Speaker 1:Do it like hyperspeed, with me doing the intro and everyone's gonna be like what the Okay, I'll see if I can make it work.
Speaker 2:The interesting thing about the intro music is I found it on I don't know if it was YouTube or what, but it was like some guy who finds royalty-free or music that you give credit for and I've had them in the show notes forever. I don't even know if this dude still makes music anymore or not, but that intro song still putting in the work, that's all I gotta say.
Speaker 1:He made a banger. I mean Julian.
Speaker 2:Adela, yeah, yeah, sure, did Great job man Great job. I don't need to say it because I'm going to make it work with that speed up, sped up.
Speaker 1:See, you left it with five seconds, so I think you have enough time to play it. And then me, just hot. I don't know how long it is, we'll find out, we'll see, we shall see At this point, and this is why this is terrible radio at this point.
Speaker 2:everybody's already heard yes, and now we're just talking about what we were. We're going to talk about what we're going to already have done, which is good. That's great podcast, Great Five stars. It blows my mind that we still have pure five-star rating on Apple. No one's come in and been like these guys suck, we kind of need one. We need one to balance it out.
Speaker 1:I'm waiting for the review that comes in. I took these guys' advice and I lost my job immediately and I haven't been able to get a job yet. It's been three years.
Speaker 2:I listened to the first episode years ago, worst decision I ever made. My life is in shambles. I'm in ruins, my 401k empty.
Speaker 1:I told my SVP this meeting could have been an email, and she fired me on the spot.
Speaker 2:Where would you get such a terrible idea? These boys made a podcast. I listened to them. I listened. Look at me now. Hey, Clark Vibe check Vibration inquiry. How are you doing?
Speaker 1:Fourier analysis. Let's do a Fourier analysis. How art thou, how art thou, how art thou, how is thee? Um, I'm doing good we're. We're looking at each other again, which is yeah, I like the vibes, I do too in a row. I can see what you're thinking yeah, I mean, you're kind of like, telepathically, you're touching your forehead, and if I do it too, I think we can say the same thing at the same time. I'm thinking of a fruit. You're gonna call it out in three, two, one banana mango cool, good job oh, this is our.
Speaker 1:Okay, I can't say it. You gotta guess the day this podcast is on. If you haven't gotten it by now, what are you doing? You should, yeah guess, when we're recording this, you'll get a trophy award in the discord if you get it right I love it, yeah, yeah, I'm doing good, though it was a good week, good, another productive friday, eerie, and my control was I didn't go to the dentist today. I'm just saying remember last last time. Yeah, it might be the drilling in my teeth that you know it was the dental.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dental productivity, which is, you know, a proven scientific thing Um, they've done a lot of studies on this, big, big research papers on going to the dentist helps your average productivity Just go through the roof. So I'm I'm shocked you managed to do it two Fridays in a row.
Speaker 1:Listen, those productivity hack boys out there. They haven't figured out this strategy yet. You go to the dentist every week. Get those vibrations, true productivity gains.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I think. I think you might have a little bit of fluoride overhang, as I see you drink black coffee from a glass jar as if it was like some 1920s arsenic poison concoction. You got there, it's a potion, yes. Well, I think that's probably. That's probably it. The fluoride is protecting your teeth still as the coffee slowly wears it away and kills it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, if I had to choose my own teeth over drinking coffee, I'd choose coffee. Give up your teeth. You give up your teeth for coffee. What the hell is wrong with you? I feel like my life would be better. No teeth, just dentures.
Speaker 2:I'm going to need an explanation for why. Why is that? Why do you want not your teeth, your teeth?
Speaker 1:are great. Listen, I've had a lot of troubles in the last two years. It's not like I don't take care of my teeth I brush how often do you brush? Now I brush twice a day.
Speaker 2:Twice a day, you madman. No wonder why you have so many problems. How often do you floss?
Speaker 1:I floss only once a day. Every night, every night I floss, you floss once a day.
Speaker 2:Dude. Your teeth should be falling out of your skull.
Speaker 1:In a good way or a bad way, I don't know. You tell me yeah, I feel like I've had so many issues in the last year that I'm just like you know what. Just take them out. Just take them out. Give me fake ones, and I feel like I'd be healthier. You can get a grill. Ooh, ooh, yeah, if this podcast ever gets a million listens.
Speaker 2:I'll get it. Do you get a grill? Will it say corporate on it?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, it would. Oh yeah it would. We did Corporate. Oh my gosh, c-o-r-p-o-r-a-t Not enough.
Speaker 2:Corporate. Corporate that's it, your corporate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that would work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want your, okay, so gauntlet throne listeners please get. Well, right now we're like 20,000, so you got a ways to go still, but it's more than that. It's more than that.
Speaker 2:I think, we've surpassed that. Right, we have to hold on. I gotta you know good, podcasting is when you look things up in real time. I think we've surpassed that, right, we have to Hold on. Podcasting is when you look things up in real time. Okay, all time, all time. Here we go, give the page a second to load Clark Calm down. 24,000 downloads, so y'all, we got a ways to go to get to a million. But once we do, we're grilling up Clark. It's going to be a good day, cannot we get?
Speaker 2:grilled yes, I like it, I'm excited, I love it. I'm looking forward to that yeah yeah, productive friday.
Speaker 1:It's weird. It's a weird thing, but I like it. I like the vibes, because if you have productive friday, monday is much less painful. But but what about you? You were on a trip.
Speaker 2:This past week yes, I took a trip.
Speaker 1:You have a story for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So my wife and I took a trip to Philadelphia to hang out with our little niece, who's a year and a half old. She's an angel, a little sweetheart. She's so much fun, so cute, but, dang yo, it's work. Like it is work taking care of children no-transcript it was. It's something that's almost like, yeah, you should do this right, like you should take a vacation where you introduce a different thing and do your lifestyle and realize, like, how good your life is. You know, like it's one of those things like I love her to death. She's great, she's a great little kid, she's so much fun to play with and, uh, it's just work right, like it's work on work. So, yeah, I was uh coming back to work this week. The vibrations were, were good and what's crazy is I came back to a lot of work, I worked. I did probably two weeks worth of work this week.
Speaker 2:And not because of, yes, four days, yes. So it's not because I missed work last week, it's just because new deadlines, we had events this week. It was a lot of things to do and it it just having that in the back of my mind is like, how do parents do this? It was a motivational thing, you know. So it was. It was good. It was good it was. It was a mind check for me and I appreciated it. I'm like stupid, exhausted right now, but you know, I appreciate the fact that I was able to experience that.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting. Yeah, I. If anybody hasn't realized this yet, we neither of us have children. So, we're living pretty easy and I agree with you. There's been a lot of children born and brought into the family around me and I see what they do and I'm like it's not that this isn't like the most beautiful thing in the world, like creating existence, and it's like the culmination of you and your partner.
Speaker 1:You know, or you adopted them, and it's still like nature versus nurture type thing. It's still amazing. It's amazing, it's life, but wow, it's work and to your point, it's like you have to care for that little thing. That's partly you. It's you. So you have a responsibility and I respect the responsibility. I appreciate how amazing it is, but I question do I want that responsibility?
Speaker 2:you know, yeah, I mean like, and that's the thing is, they put their, they put this little girl in daycare when they're, you know, working, because they both have full-time jobs and you have to right, like you know, in days you really can't afford for one part of the family unit to not be working when you have children, just because of you know money and how bad it sucks now. So you're, you're basically taking a chunk of your paycheck for someone else to watch your kid. You come home, you need to take care of them. Like there's so much investment of both monetary value and time, like respect was gained, respect was seriously gained for all of our parental listeners out there. Y'all are the real heroes. I'm just a scrub who complains about my, my difficult job. When I've got this, you know, very disconnect, I can relax. I don't have, you know, a child has to take care of after work's over. It's a yeah, it was, it was an experience.
Speaker 1:I want to key in on something you said that I think is really interesting. Our discord started talking about like mental health days and like some companies. I think some people are saying like, hey, yeah, I get a certain amount of mental health days every single year. What'd be really interesting is like time off for a perspective trip where you get latched on to something like this. It's like either you go to a country that is, you know, a third world or something like that. You have to, you know, take care of a child for like a couple of days. You have to go do volunteer work, or, you know, go to a food kitchen or a homeless shelter, and it's a perspective couple of days where you kind of learn I appreciate my life in the situation I'm in, because now I have that broader perspective. Or it also works out, man, I'm loving this. It also works out because you might realize, I love this thing.
Speaker 1:I actually want to have a kid or I want to do more volunteer work. It could work better for the world.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying right, it's exploratory living, right, like, and I think there's there's two outcomes. One is you gain a respect for a group of people that you might not have really thought too much about before. Or two, you you find a passion for that kind of thing. Can you imagine if you took a week off to go work two part-time jobs, like you're doing six hours at mcdonald's, then you're doing six hours at home depot loading packages, because you're simulating what it's like to be uh, you know a part-time worker in america who can't find a full-time job. You will gain so much respect for the job you do today. Guarantee, guarantee, just guarantee.
Speaker 1:If I had to work a drive-thru and somebody threw something at me, wow, I would lose my job so fast. I would get fired from that job so quick.
Speaker 2:I mean, on the plus side, you'd probably get sent home. If you get something thrown on you, you might get a half day full pay. So maybe, maybe you pray for the milkshake, maybe you do, maybe you try to we yearn to wear the milkshake.
Speaker 1:But I like that idea. That's really interesting. It kind of goes back to the thing I'm going to use, my buzzword Bingo Eating your own dog food yeah, it's good vibes good vibes. That was an awesome vibration inquiry and I appreciate it it was now clark.
Speaker 2:Do you have some news for us?
Speaker 1:yes, this is huge. Oh, you don't even know about it yet, and that's what do I need to?
Speaker 2:like brace myself, like hold on to the desk I'm looking at holden please hold on.
Speaker 1:I can verify whether he is he is he's bracing his. His whole entire computer is kind of shaking. That's how hard he's embracing right now. Breaking news we are in the top 30 podcasts in latin america are you serious I got this spam email the other day. What I got this spam email? It was like congratulations, you're one of the top 30 podcasts in Latin America. And I was like what? There's no way. So I started looking at the email. It was complete spam.
Speaker 2:But either way, breaking news.
Speaker 1:I think we can now say we're in the top 30 podcasts in Latin America because of the spam email right.
Speaker 2:So hold on, hold on, Let me just let's play back the tape here. You're saying because you received a spam email saying we were in the top 30, not percent, just top 30.
Speaker 1:In Latin America In Latin.
Speaker 2:America. You take that as truth and we are.
Speaker 1:I mean have you verified it's wrong? Have I verified it's wrong? Don't do it. Don't do it, see. If you do it, then you can't claim it. Verified it's right. Don't do it, see. If you do it, then you can't claim it. But the fact that we haven't verified it means it's true.
Speaker 2:Clark, I just checked our all episodes. I looked at all episodes, stats locations, all episodes. Okay, well, that's not loading.
Speaker 1:Latin America is probably the last place.
Speaker 2:Okay. So North America 17,000 downloads 69% of our listeners. So North America 17,000 downloads, 69% of our listeners are in North America. Figures South America 147 total downloads, 0% of our listeners. That's you. We have more listeners in Oceania 615. 2%. South America is our lowest listened to demographic.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious.
Speaker 2:I love it. See, now you're pretty wrong. Now we can't claim it.
Speaker 1:The spam email told me a truth and I was just going to believe it, but you ruined it.
Speaker 2:They also tell you that you're like the prince of Nigeria and you need to just go contact your rich uncle over there and you'll be, you know, set for life. There's a lesson to be learned here, Clark. I mean, you know, set for life.
Speaker 1:There's a lesson to be learned here, clark, I mean, you're not wrong. Also, just the level of spam email we'll get is wild.
Speaker 2:It's wild. I don't even check our email accounts anymore. Y'all, if you want to contact us, there's only one way to do it. It's go through the discord. You know we've bat a, had a bad person join there, yeah, so everybody is doing trustworthy, legit, and it keeps on like there's more and more the interaction we've had in the last couple months, all time All time, all time.
Speaker 1:It's great we're getting daily interaction from everybody. Good conversation. I got called a nerd today, so thanks for that. Yeah, that was rude kind of.
Speaker 2:But you know, I guess we can't say they're bad people. I am kind of put it out there. You know, you wanted, you wanted to get called a nerd I could.
Speaker 1:You posted that and I was like, oh this, this boy wants to be a nerd, be looking for it, fair enough, I also. Um, oh, I do have other news this is the random news section because the breaking news was fake. Thanks for making that fake news. I watched a YouTube video from Neuralink this week. Oh boy, yep, get ready, I'm ready. They have a new product. I can't remember the exact. I think it was called Empathy. I'll look it up. I'll get the actual name.
Speaker 1:I'll get it here, what it is is they implant this in your head. They take a little chunk out of your head and they put this little thing in that shoots a bunch of these. Yeah, like they basically cut out a hole in your skull and they do an implant there, right? So like the whole pig thing we talked about many episodes ago. But it's advanced Now. Essentially it takes a smaller footprint. It shoots all these like needles into your cortex, like needles into your cortex and then eventually, what's great about it is it actually helps you control your computer, your phone, everything like that, with just your brain and not your eyes, your brain.
Speaker 1:They have learned how to transmit your brain waves and your thinking into moving keyboard, mouse, things like that and make it possible. So they actually have it in a single patient one patient right now they're doing more patient. They actually have it in a single patient one patient right now. They're doing more patient studies. They have in a single patient who was in a freak accident, lost, basically full, full, paralyzed, so lost control, hands, feet, all that good stuff. And he is basically now he does like Twitch live streams, does YouTube videos and he like plays video games with just his brain, and the speed at which he can do these things is so much faster because he doesn't have to rely on a keyboard and mouse, he's just thinking it and so he was like unreal.
Speaker 2:I was literally gonna jokingly ask what is his actions per minute in starcraft, yeah. But then you actually went and said that he's playing video games with it, which like that's cool. That gives me so much hope for the future because, like we don't need Neuralink Clark Right. But you know, paraplegics, those who are disabled, those who have the inability to interact with computers through keyboard, mouse or other accessible means like this is truly groundbreaking stuff and I'm glad that exists and that's super cool, although it's not cool that this guy is probably going to be destroying me and all the online games I play now and you know they're soon enough there could be an army of neural linkers who are just like they. We have to separate. They can't play with us because they're too good, you know, like they're just too strong. So I love it, but I'm also scared somehow, and I know that sounds so wrong because they're already handicapped.
Speaker 1:But you're gonna have to handicap them because their brain is gonna be so much faster than any other video games. Like there's gonna. It's gonna be really interesting to see how it progresses. They talk a lot about like it takes a lot of like training. Yeah, I bet, get it to work with your brain.
Speaker 1:Waves like he, he, this dude shout out to him. He like went all in like he was working like 100 hours a week to be like how do I get this to work the efficiently, how do I think, in order to get it to work the most efficiently? And they created like a game and I don't know if it's some test, but they have like a dot on a grid. So imagine you know a piece of graph paper or whatever. They color a dot and you have to go and click it with your mouse and so like that's a game to prove like how quickly can you click these things and kind of associate your brain and get that time to action by doing it with your brain not your eyes, but your brain you can basically like beat that by 30x or something like that, which is wild. So the ability for him to kind of go through.
Speaker 2:That is just insane he still has to look right like he has to look at a screen. He's still looking because yes, in his brain but he's.
Speaker 1:he's been able to train his brain to give the signals, Like he can close his eyes and still do things.
Speaker 2:Whoa yeah, which is weird, right, because?
Speaker 1:it's not an eye tracker, it's your brain. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Which is why my PlayStation VR kit has eye tracking and at first I was like this is the most gimmicky thing in the world. But it's actually really cool and once you get used to it it's so much better than like mouse movement, like when you really get eye tracking down, like like the top gun kind of eye tracking, and it works well. You can be really fast Like you. Just you're cutting out movement time because your eyes move so quickly. It like that's impressive. I'm. I'm going to read more into this because that's super cool. Again, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. I think there's just too much inherent risk for someone who doesn't need it. But I love that this exists so good.
Speaker 1:I agree it's super cool, especially in that use case, and you know there'll be more patients that use it. There hasn't been any complications yet, so I think that's pretty awesome. I'm sure there will be a complication at some point, which is scary, given it's your life.
Speaker 2:That's true for everything, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 2:But I wonder at what?
Speaker 1:point does this become like an upgrade for your body? You know what I mean, like. At what point do we all say, like, actually, like I need this and or maybe it's not surgery anymore. It becomes so good that they're able to transmit the waves through your skull and you're able to, just like, wear a hat or put something on your head and that's it.
Speaker 2:It's really interesting to think about it is, and you know like it's so funny. We always worry about the complications, like I'm. You know I wouldn't do it because I'm worried about what's going to happen, but yet we get into vehicles every day which are, you know, statistically the the number one way to die just like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right get behind the wheel of a car, your chance of dying goes up tremendously. So it's just, it's math, right, like we always. We always worry about the things that are new, when we don't worry about the things that are killing us every day. Just this is funny. This is human nature and that's transformative change.
Speaker 1:I think that goes with anything we human nature and that's transformative change. I think that goes with anything we do. It's like yeah transformative change is a little scary, but eventually it becomes the normal, and that's right what we expect the concern over the ai cars or the ai powered uh self-driving cars.
Speaker 2:Right, like they're statistically so much safer than a human driver on just a time on road accident ratio. Yet every time there is an accident it makes freaking world news like we gotta shut this down. They're not safe, it's like, but they're way more safe than people, yeah, but they're not safe, quote, unquote. So, like you know, it's just in our like change mile living area.
Speaker 1:There's been more accidents yeah, just today we started recording this podcast and there's probably ever been with AI driving, which is why.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mistakes happen, but the more they happen, the more they get fixed. I don't know, people drive terribly, so I'm all in for the self-driving AI cars. I'm here for it. Hey, you ready to get to our topic for today, clark you ready.
Speaker 1:I'll share the link. You guys got to check this out. I'll see if I can find a good video, but it's good stuff so I'll share it. See, news wasn't all fake, this is real news.
Speaker 2:I'm glad. I was really worried there that that was going to be it and I'm like geez. Well, clark, your contributions, right, lee? I mean you've been doing great in the topics but the news section, yowza. So, speaking of taking time off, there's been some great discussion in the Discord and a request for a topic talking about PTO. Lee, let me just go to the channel. Here came from our old topic submitter, squidboy, just constantly chief pod topic officer. Where's that title? With pride, they say. I think a cool pod topic came up from the conversation with bourgeoisie correspondent Alex Restrepo the idea of PTO or like different PTOs. I think there's an uncalled rule to take it or not take it. How it's viewed, I get mixed signals for PTO, whether or not to take it. I never log mine personally, I just tell my boss I'll be out, even though we have unlimited PTO. And I thought let's take this and expand upon it and just do a PTO episode, because I don't think we've done one of these before.
Speaker 1:No, we've always talked about it but we've never really broken it down and talked about, you know, the different things that we've seen in our careers, the different things that the uh discord has been talking about. I think it would be worth breaking down you want to start for all them freshers out there yeah break down like what pto is, what the difference of pto, especially in like tech corporate is I don't think pto really exists all that much anymore in corporate culture.
Speaker 2:I I think you still get it at more service type jobs or blue collar jobs. But PTO, which stands for paid time off, is an accrual of holiday time or just time away from work throughout the year. Simple as that. You might get a couple of sick days. Simple as that. You might get a couple of sick days. You might get a couple of mental health holidays or you might get parental leave if that's included with your benefit.
Speaker 2:But PTO is the much anymore, unless they use it, because that's kind of the word that's become ingrained in the back of our mind. Mostly it's NTO no time off or YTO your time off. I think NTO became YTO because no one liked the word no. But your time off, which is now the common standard, is basically you have quote unquote unlimited time off. All you need to do is get your manager's approval and statistically they have proven that with this model you take so much less time off, which I can confirm personally. But that's. That's a quick breakdown of what it is. I think it's important that we discuss, oh to go about actually taking advantage of this, like how we can improve ourselves when it comes to yto and uh, just what we think about it in general. What's, yeah, what's your feeling?
Speaker 1:on the time off situation it's interesting and maybe to give my feeling I can kind of explain a little bit about the way my company works is we actually don't have unlimited time off. We do have no, not a not a really paid time off, like we have regular time off. We have sick days. Obviously, use those when you're sick, not just taking vacation. You have like your days which are like you use them for like personal appointments and stuff, but you're not really sick. It's like, oh, I got to go to the dentist and do this thing and I got to run this errand, whatever.
Speaker 1:So like that's interesting. And then you have vacation time and that's like your standard, you know you get two weeks a year, all that good stuff, do you accrue it?
Speaker 1:You do accrue it, but you lose it. So you only can go so high depending on your rank, which is interesting, right. It's like if you're the higher in the company you are, the longer your tenure as well. You can accrue more than someone who just started and hit their 90 days, um, but every year you basically get balanced out. So it's really confusing. It's like wait, I got to use my, I got to burn my time, otherwise I lose it. So that's what everybody ends up doing is as they're. I think it's all based on, like your anniversary date for when you started and essentially everybody's just like I got like three weeks of time off. I got to burn before I lose it all because you did accrue it throughout the year. Now you're over your limit and they're going to reset you back. So that's a little how ours works, which is super annoying but also good in some ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what's interesting, right, it's like you'd think this would should be more complicated than unlimited or your time off or whatever, but it actually is good because the penalty of losing it forces people to take it, yeah, and. I like that a lot, I like that.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh, shoot, this day's coming up, I better use these or I'm going to lose it. And then everyone's like, oh, I got to take days off, sorry, I'm going to lose my time. I'm like that's actually a good thing, like I'm happy you're doing that, that's awesome. So I kind of like that policy, rather than unlimited, because unlimited, lucky yeah.
Speaker 1:Unlimited is like okay, do I take it? Do I not take it? Is everyone else taking it? Can I take it? Like it just makes it so much more complicated than just you have these hours you lose them on the state.
Speaker 2:You better use them Right, and that's the big difference. And if I had to guess, I bet you the reason you have traditional PTO accrual is because so much of your company's employees are service type employees, like probably majority. I would guess yeah. So like they don't want to create two systems, they have to manage an HR. So you're getting the benefit of the fact that's fun. You're getting the benefit of the fact there are balloons on my screen. Don't worry about it.
Speaker 1:It's an Apple thing, but they have a new update where, like, if you hold up your thumbs I'm not in the latest version, as you can tell, but if you hold your thumbs or you throw both hands in the air, like shoot off balloons or put a thumb up, this yes and occasionally, when I hand gesture which I'm known to do it, it does it on the fly.
Speaker 2:Sorry about that, the yeah. But I tell you like when I had pto, I took it because I didn't want to lose it, and now I'm in a situation where I don't even track it. But I know for a fact I've taken less than what I should be because it's I think it's much easier to take it when you know you have it when it's owed to you and you see a number that says hey, bruce, you still have seven days of PTO left that are going to expire in two months. Like, well, dang, either I book a trip or I take some me time. Take every other Friday off, like I need to do something because I'm not going to give this away.
Speaker 2:That reminder is helpful because you don't get that on a limited. You're just like yeah, bruce, take time. Take time when you need it. When you need it is the word, right, not when you want it. When you need it, which is such a devious way to say it. It's like when do I need it? Well, obviously not when it's going to hurt the company, not when it's going to impact your job performance, right? I hate unlimited time off so much. It sucks so bad. I would love to go back to traditional paid time model, but the unlimited model.
Speaker 1:Just for everybody listening. It's been a trend, like our old company when we worked together. They shifted to that and it really sucked for those people who have been there forever, because I think we had an accrual model and so people who have been there for like 20 years, they stacked up this level of time.
Speaker 1:I got like two months Exactly, they could retire early. They could be like I'm just going to retire because I'm taking my vacation now and I've got a year and a half of vacation, so I'll see you guys later, I'm retiring early, or the company would have to pay them out, like if they decided to leave or, you know, got fired, the company would have to pay out that time off because it was, you know, a asset to the employee which was really good when they shifted to your time off. They make it like corporate, makes it sound like such a good thing.
Speaker 2:Congratulations.
Speaker 1:You can take off time whenever you want. Don't worry about those balances anymore, just take the time off. And then it's like to your point, it's like when you need it. That's the devious word there, and it's awkward. It's like, hey, I'm going to take this time off and your manager's like well, you've already taken like two weeks off this year. Like you don't feel like you're entitled to it anymore. It's like you have to ask for it, which is what I think I don't like about it.
Speaker 2:Cause you had a number, right Like when we were working at old corp, we had three weeks, right Like, every employee got three weeks when they joined the company. Well, you get three weeks given to you, accrued throughout the first year. So the first year is probably the roughest on the PTO model, because you start with none and then every paycheck they put a couple of hours in your account until you get to the full three and you're one but smooth sailing, you know you. You, you start to accrue your bank, you, you build up a nice little number and as long as there's rollover, week after week, you're good to go. But no one can say otherwise. Right, like, hey, I've got 72 days of PTO, I'm taking two weeks. Cool, you earned it, you know like, the company owes you this. You've given your time. Now here's your time back, like there's no questioning it. Yeah, bad managers would be like, oh, I don't want you taking that time off or whatever, but truly it's your time.
Speaker 2:Where it's so hard now because one I don't know what the number is, you know they'll be like oh yeah, it's about three weeks, about three weeks. Is that more than three weeks, or is that less than three weeks? And also the real tragic thing is most companies that used to offer PTO. Like you said, clark, when you were senior, you get more weeks per year. The longer you stay, the more PTO you get. It's a perk of loyalty, which now you're like. Well, I've been at this job for five years, but we're on unlimited and no one's ever told me what the number is. So I guess I'll just take my three weeks. It's like we're giving up all of our vacation and free time because HR has deviously stolen it from us, and I hate it.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting. Yeah, yeah, when you think about, like, let's talk about performance reviews. You're a manager.
Speaker 1:Well, a little bit tying into this topic. You're a manager, an employee comes to you and they're like I haven't take a single day off this week Cause they they don't technically have to. And they're like I haven't taken a single day off this week because they don't technically have to. They're not losing anything. They're like I haven't taken a single day off this year. No sick days, nothing. Like I've been the perfect stand-up employee. And then you've got the person who, like who does really great work, but they took like a month off. Is that going to factor into, like, the visibility of them and this company Like, as I'm thinking about that, for me I wouldn't care because I care about the work, but I know good old Evil Corpo, they are absolutely going to take that into account and being like, well, you were out for a month this year, that kind of factored in your performance. It doesn't matter how good you do when you're here or you're just trying to enjoy your life Because you took a month off this year it's going to look bad against you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oof, I didn't want to go down that path of punitive in the PTO, but I bet you there are bean counters that look at that kind of thing, especially in bigger companies where we're starting to see more monitoring. Oh, you didn't touch your keyboard for the last hour so you must not be working, you, terrible corporate citizen you. You didn't touch your keyboard for the last hour, so you must not be working, you terrible corporate citizen you. Why wouldn't they also judge you for the time you take and the time you use? It's kind of sickening when you think about what we've lost Because you and I started working over.
Speaker 2:You know, for me it's over 15 years now I've been in professional world. Our listeners have probably been in professional world even longer or some shorter. But like we see what they've taken from us and what they expect from us, which is way more productivity, way more cycles, way more work than ever before. Yet we're expected to not be able to recoup and relax and rest and people wonder why anxiety is through the fricking roof in our generation. I think this this all ties into it right. We cannot recover the way we used to. We just can't because we don't have that ability anymore. They've, they're, they're removing it entirely. I think it's important we talk a little bit about how you ask for it, because that was kind of squid boys asked and I think it is important we discuss that. So let's remove our manager caps and put on the ic, because I think the ic is the one who struggles the most. Game right, how? How do you request time off? What's your? What's your play clark?
Speaker 1:it's. It's interesting when you ask my play I, I almost need to think about my team and how they've asked me. I think, fortunately, even just the relationship I have with the person who manages me, the people I manage, I'm like, well, you get your work done. I really don't care and you don't even have to. Don't charge in the system, I really don't care. I know how hard you work and I even tell my team that I'm like hey, just tell your team like they're working really hard. Don't put the time in the system, just take the day as long as your responsibilities are covered, take the day. So we're really flexible.
Speaker 1:And I actually do lose time some years, like cause that just doesn't roll over, cause I already took the time and I just forgot to log it, cause we just don on it, we're good, like literally that's the conversation. So for me it's it's really easy as long as everything's covered. But I do the downside to that, as I do kind of plan it around, work right. It's like I know a big launch is coming, I know I got to go on a work business trip or whatever. Like I obviously am responsible for making sure that I time it up at an appropriate time. That's going to work well, but rarely do I ever get declined.
Speaker 2:I think when you're have you been.
Speaker 1:I've never been, no, I've never been declined really yeah, because my team's always covered and luckily it's been really good. Where I work, they're pretty flexible. But in regards to how you ask, especially in a your time off situation, you do kind of have to go and say with ample time hey, I'm planning this trip.
Speaker 1:It depends on the length too. If it's just like a day or an afternoon, usually they don't care, because you can go to them. Let's say, let's say shortest period first, maybe let's say you need to be off for a couple hours for an appointment. You could go to them and say, hey, I need to take the time off. And then in traditional systems might be like well, take three hours off your day. Or you can just say, hey, I'm going to make up the hours a little bit later. So is it all good if I go to this appointment? And usually I feel like if you're rational about it, you're not going to get denied. What do you think?
Speaker 2:So for me the rule of thumb is almost like N plus two. So if you're, if you're going to take a week off, you should be asking to take that week at least two weeks before you take it that way. And I'll actually want to revise something I just said you don't ask. Firstly, you request time off. You don't ask, you request. Because the second year can I do this. I feel like there's a confidence thing that happens where it's like oh, manager's the one who decides whether or not you can take time off, that I feel like there's a confidence thing that happens where it's like Ooh, managers, the one who decides whether or not you can take time off right, like when did Bruce last?
Speaker 2:take time off, right, but if you're, you know in plus two. So let's say I'm gonna take a week off three weeks from now. I put it in the system. Hey, I'm going to Philadelphia, I've spent time with my niece in three weeks. I put in the system it's a request. I say what I'm, you can say, or you don't have to say what you're doing.
Speaker 2:I find a reason is helpful, just so they're not like, well, what are you doing? And if they ask what you're doing, it's a bad manager. So I just do it out of habit to kind of get ahead of the ask. But that way the time you're taking. So if I was going to take two weeks, I'd do it four weeks in advance. Right, like we're that way we're, we're getting really ahead of me not being there. It gives them time to prepare for you not being there. It puts it on everyone's calendar in the future. They say well, bruce ain't going to be here for two weeks in two weeks. Let's make one makes me accountable and make sure I get my work done and ready for my two week holiday. But two, it says you guys who rely on me better get everything you need in before these. You know your window is up and I feel like that gives everyone ample time to prepare for it, but that's, that's my rule. It's never burned me, so I've just lived by it.
Speaker 1:That is a Bruce banger. A Bruce banger, the ask. You don't ask, you basically request and people could say, well, is that like kind of the same thing? I think it's very different. It's like to your point, you're not asking, can I? You're saying, hey, I'm planning to take these days off.
Speaker 2:I already have planned everything out, everything's covered from my end, just wanted to give you a heads up, I put it in the system Like it's a request for time off. You know it has to get approved, but I'm not asking my boss first. Hey, can I take two weeks off then put it in the system? No, straight to the system. This is the date I'm not going to be here and I'm giving you ample time to know that I'm not going to be here. Yeah, that's never been declined.
Speaker 1:No, I agree. And usually that's how we always try to word it. We don't request it, but we word it that way. We're like, hey, I've got this vacation coming up, everything's going to be covered, I've planned everything around this, so I think we should be good to go. And then usually they won't say like no, decline. But if you go into your point and you ask, you ask, and you say, can I? Or hey, I was hoping to take some time it's like don't do that, this is your time, take the time.
Speaker 2:And they should respect that it also gives them the opportunity to look and see.
Speaker 2:Well, should they oh, we have there's a webinar that week that you know we might need you for Like, don't give them a reason to say no If you I think this is true for many things in corporate and it's hard for those that aren't type A.
Speaker 2:But living in the affirmative, not asking for things, ask for forgiveness, right, like that's the motto is like, ask for forgiveness, being affirmative, being sort of positive, confident in your requests, in your pushes, that's always gonna play to your benefit, I feel, as long as you are a good employee, right. If you're not a good employee, then it just feels fast and loose and like you're unreliable. But I think for most of our listeners and you know the the discord fam, I know everyone in there they're solid employees. You, you play this route, you will be able to get through, and I'm curious if you haven't. So please, in the discord, let us know if my advice is bad or if we're completely off the mark here, but this is what I've seen works for me, and I also tell my team to do the same thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that a lot and.
Speaker 1:I think, something so important. We kind of glossed over and we both said it. But let them know you've prepared. Yes, say hey, I took care of of everything. If you are working in like agile, all my stories are already done, or I let my scrum master, my team, know that I'll be out, so they're planning for it in their sprint. Like just make sure that you're letting your manager know it's covered, we're good. I think that's kind of that will also affirm like okay, they've thought of it. Because the first question from manager, like what goes in their head? It goes through mine. When I get those type of conversations with my employees, I think about is there anything like I need them for during?
Speaker 2:that period of time.
Speaker 1:What's the impact? Yeah, but I shouldn't have to think about that If they come and they tell me hey, no impact on my side. These are the couple of things Can you look out for this? For me it's like okay, now it's very clear. And now I feel even better because I'm like I'm prepared. I'm prepared for success, their team is prepared for success, even though they're going to be out.
Speaker 1:And I think that's such an important thing to do beyond just this. But as an employee, if you're going to rise the ranks, if you're going to grow and be a really good corporate citizen, always showing that you're prepared and being proactive is going to pay off for you.
Speaker 2:Completely agree. And then when you are on your time off, it is your time off, yeah Right, like shut the laptop off, you don't need to be checking your email, you don't need to be going on Slack and checking on things. Take that time for you, that is your time, you've earned it and set that behavior early, because if you don't, then they're going to expect you to do it when you do leave, right?
Speaker 1:If you use Slack and I am or anything like that, and like someone messages you and you see them out of office, help that culture and be like hey, it looks like you're out of office. This can probably wait till you get back Right and like try to be that positive enforcer, because I have people do it all the time and I literally tell my team I'm like I will look at your rating and your performance review and how well you can take your time off, because if you're constantly checking in, either A means you don't know how to kind of rest and recover and be unwind and ultimately not burn out is what I'm hoping for. But B it also means like either you haven't planned properly for this, so it also makes you look bad as an employee. You obviously didn't prepare for this and you weren't properly preparing the people around you to successfully step into it. So I think it always looks better that you're prepared and you're ready and if you constantly keep chiming in when you're off, very bad sign very bad sign as an employee.
Speaker 1:So just giving you that from my manager hat put my manager hat on. If you're doing that, then I know you didn't prepare well and you're it's going to look bad on you, right.
Speaker 2:And if you're doing that, from my mind you're checking in on your time off, like you're not separating right, like you're not getting to the unburnout phase, you're not having the revelation that I had last week. That's the whole point of getting away. It's to clear your mind. I want you coming back better than when you left, and if you can't disconnect, that's not going to happen.
Speaker 1:And good managers understand that Like, taking time to recover and relax will make you better.
Speaker 1:Because sometimes when you're in the day-to-day slog and this is scientifically proven I don't have this study, but tell me, Tell me it's scientifically proven, Someone's got an article for it Someone will tell me If you take time off, it helps your brain unwind all those things that subconsciously you're processing every day and you will have creative inspirations to be like shoot, I know how to fix this problem.
Speaker 1:Or what if we did this differently? And that will come to you because you gave your brain that space in the day to day kind of burnout drain. You don't ever get that space because your brain is just going, going, going and at the end of the day you're shutting it off. When you step away, your brain gets some time and space to actually like, reflect on that, even in your subconscious. That's why they always say like sometimes you solve problems, especially if you're like a software engineer. You'll be in the shower and you're like I know the issue. I've been banging my head on this for three weeks and, for whatever reason, I just thought of it in the shower. It's because you've gotten that separation and your brain has had time to work through it, and that's when those revelations come.
Speaker 2:So it's the engineer's way to solve the problem.
Speaker 1:It is, go take a shower, go for a walk?
Speaker 2:Yeah, go for a walk. Yeah, go eat some Cheetos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember it actually. Actually you reminded me I did get scrutiny for taking some time off at one point. Really I did. Now this was when I was a fresher. It is with a man, shouldn't matter, but continue. It was with a manager, you know, and you know who I'm talking oh, I knew this individual was terrible.
Speaker 2:I hated this guy.
Speaker 1:For so many reasons. And I remember I was asking because I was doing this two or three week program. At the time I was still finishing school and I was like I need to leave for three days a week at four o'clock instead of five. And I remember I was like, hey, I remember going to them. I was like, hey, I got this new thing I'm doing and I need to leave a little bit early just for the next three weeks, at like four o'clock instead of five. And I basically was like I'm going to come in early and I'll make sure that the work gets done. Like is this OK?
Speaker 1:And I remember him kind of looking at me being like Now, I guess if you need to do that, then you need to do. It was literally the response. It's like I guess if you need to, then you need to, and so obviously, like I felt terrible about that because I was like shoot, well, I mean I do. Is that a yes or no one? I didn't know the answer then, because I'm like did he? Did he just give me permission?
Speaker 1:or not like I didn't. I wasn't sure, and then also I kind of I felt guilt-tripped. I was like, okay, well, I need to, so I guess I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 2:But I also felt like now my manager doesn't like me we can do a case study on that individual, because they acted like everything them and their team did was the most crucial thing in the company. And spoiler, spoiler alert it's not and it wasn't and it never was, nor will it ever be. But I think when you act that way and you bring this air of like it's all critical, it's all crucial. We're all important cogs in the machine and if you step away, if you break the norm, everything falls apart. All you're doing is just creating more burnout. I'm getting burned out just thinking about it. Yeah, and that was the wrong response to your question, because you, you came in saying, hey, I'm gonna come in early. You know, it probably is not going to impact anybody, because four to five, that's a useless hour anyway. People are winding down, no one's running meetings. Four to five, literally. For him to respond that way is just so uh, micromanaging, right? Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:It is make your skin crawl an hour for three days a week, leaving early for the next three weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's so inconsequential. It means nine hours nine hours, nine hours, where I wouldn't be in the office. Literally, you could just be like, hey, I'm taking, I'm taking nine hours of PTO for the next three weeks. Yeah, oh, if you need to, you need to like son, I earned this. This is my time Like it was insane.
Speaker 1:I just remember the conversation. I was like, oh my gosh, like that was such a weird interaction and you kind of brought me back to that. But now you're making me reminisce with like so many other situations with that individual where I'm like oh, that was an awful, awful manager.
Speaker 2:Toxic, super toxic.
Speaker 1:And I think if you're in a culture like that, we talk about this a lot, but plenty exit like that's your time to start looking for another job or another position in the company where you're away from that individual. But I can guarantee you you are not going to enjoy the culture on that team and everyone around you is going to hate it too.
Speaker 2:Where did they end up, do you?
Speaker 1:know, god knows, god knows, and I mean I hate to say it, I just don't care.
Speaker 2:I want to say they went to Amazon which they went to Amazon, which is like the most fitting place for them to land.
Speaker 1:No, oh, I can totally say that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think they did, which checks out, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean that tallies many people that I look back on, that I worked with, where I'm like yeah you're bad, you fit right in.
Speaker 2:You'll fit right in with that Bezos culture.
Speaker 1:You'll literally live in that culture and you will thrive in that toxic culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah well, hopefully that helped the the pto conversation. I think we. I think we covered it. I think we did.
Speaker 1:If you guys have more, questions, let us know, you know, if you guys want to talk about it. They're really good collab and a lot of different viewpoints from different industries and different positions that I think could give some feedback. So if you guys have more questions, let us know and hopefully yeah, hopefully we gave some good, informative, useful tidbits to help you climb that corporate ladder.
Speaker 2:Sure hope. Hey, if you want to, if you want to leave us feedback or tell us why this episode wasn't as good as you wanted it to be, you can do that really easily by joining our Discord, and in order to do that, all you have to do is go into the show notes, click the All the Things link and bajambo, welcome to the Discord. You're in there. Introduce yourself in the WhoisWho channel. It's a great place to be. Clark was talking about it earlier. How good the activity's been. It's a great place to what he's been. It's a great place. If you're not in there, you should be. And we also have a game we play in Discord every week at the end of the show. It's called what Do you Meme?
Speaker 1:It is your turn.
Speaker 2:It is my turn. I will have to describe a visual meme with words that someone has posted in the channel. So here I go. Let's imagine, if you will, here I go. Let's imagine, if you will, an individual Can you imagine an individual? He's a man. He's got a little stubbly beard, blue eyes. He's been shocked Shocked to his core Eyes, wide Mouth pursed. Something has startled him. He is very startled and only in the moment do we find out what it was. He told a joke so funny. Everyone laughed, everyone laughed. People who don't even work at the company laughed. But more important than that, his joke was so funny. Hr now wants to hear it, and that mere thought has sent shivers down his body. He quakes, he shakes, he fears, because he knows His time on this earth is limited. The joke was too funny.
Speaker 1:Poor guy. Hr has now entered the chat.
Speaker 2:HR has entered the chat. I love this the recording started.
Speaker 1:Can you tell me exactly what you said? Hold on, I got to record.
Speaker 2:This was a good boy even said this is a reply to the safe spaces episode. So perfect, perfect meme for a safe space.
Speaker 1:I love it that one was so good. Well executed, Bruce. I'm proud of you for that delivery.
Speaker 2:Hey, that's what I'm here for. I'm here to deliver specifically for you, Clark.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Yeah, thank you no, thank you, no, thank you, no. Thank the listeners.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, thanks, listeners, for joining us every week listening to our pod. If you like what you heard, why not leave us a review? You know we've got that perfect five-star run on Apple Podcasts. What's one more five-star? You don't even have to feel bad about doing it. Don't feel shameful. We did it on the performance reviews episode. We talked about the importance of good feedback, but listen, if you give us anything less than five, it's just going to hurt us. So why, not just give us another five-star, let's keep the trend going.
Speaker 1:I mean, are let's keep the trend going? I mean just a quick fiver, give us a quick fiver. Smack that guy on there, go to your co-workers yes, their phone and give a fiver for them. Force them grab their phone out of their hand rip it out of their hand and give us a fiver now what are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm leaving a five-star review on the corporate strategy podcast. Oh, okay, that's the. That's the actual way it's gonna play out. Yeah, what's the worst that's going to happen?
Speaker 1:You know, Nothing.
Speaker 2:No one ever gets mad when you yoink a phone out of their hand. Oh hey, you might have noticed that we're ad-free and that's because of a generous donor who's made sure that we stay ad-free for the next 12 months. If you'd like to keep it that way, you can donate to buy me uh, buy us a coffee. Buy me a coffee. Buy someone a coffee, uh, that's another link you can get to through the link shared in the show notes.
Speaker 1:Anything else clark I think you hit it all. We got a website. You can hit the website it's true, got a website.
Speaker 2:What's that called?
Speaker 1:for newsletters on there. So we newsletter every single new episode. You'll be the first to know, and there's literally links in there on how to listen to it. So if you just want to straighten your ear holes, sign up for that email newsletter. Hit the button. It'll start playing right away. Oh my gosh. Corporate strategy dot biz the biz?
Speaker 2:yes, the biz. What was that? It's just corporate strategy, dot this okay okay, it's corporate strategy dot biz, dot biz. The biz stands for business. Write it twice. Make sure you do that, otherwise it won't work exactly.
Speaker 1:It will not work. But yeah, it's great you can also submit a topic on there. We haven't gotten a topic. Somebody gave us a topic um the other day, spamming us about buying their yarn off Etsy. It said the silky smooth yarn from the audience of China. And I was like I don't think that's really applicable to us, but I appreciate it. I appreciate you filling out this form. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Best way to submit a topic is still going through our Discord in the Pod Topics channel, which is where we pulled today's topic from. So I highly recommend that, because the email, like Clark has alluded to numerous times, is quite trashy.
Speaker 1:I think you hit it, I think that's it Awesome. That's all she wrote.
Speaker 2:Well, go all. Hat no cowboy, I'm Bruce.
Speaker 1:And I'm Clark.
Speaker 2:And you're on mute. We'll see you next week.
