Corporate Strategy
Corporate Strategy
133.What is Good Enough?
What happens when an attempted creative podcast edit almost results in a car crash? Get ready for a rollercoaster of laughs and insights as Bruce and Clark dive into the hilarities and hazards of podcast production. This episode kicks off with a spirited debate about the crucial role of audience feedback and the merits of podcast intros. Reflecting on their five-star reviews and a near-miss incident with a quirky audio decision, our hosts express heartfelt gratitude to their listeners. Plus, a playful banter about their recording rituals and editing duties keeps the camaraderie alive and well.
Switching gears, Bruce and Clark share their personal journeys with physical therapy, highlighting the transformative benefits of proactive health measures. They contrast their productive workweeks with significant health improvements, providing practical advice and relatable anecdotes about dealing with muscle issues from activities like rowing. A humorous interlude ensues as they adjust their standing desks mid-podcast, underscoring the importance of addressing health issues before they escalate.
From personal health to the global stage, the episode takes a serious turn with a discussion on the massive Boeing employee strike and its implications. With 33,000 workers demanding better wages and healthcare, Bruce and Clark explore the potential impacts on Boeing's operations and its competition with Airbus. They also touch on the ethical dilemmas of eternal work versus finite retirement and the geographic trends in strike activities. Wrapping up, our hosts ponder the balance between perfection and "good enough," arguing that sometimes striving for timeless work can be more valuable than chasing constant innovation. This episode is a blend of humor, personal insight, and thought-provoking discussion that promises to keep you hooked from start to finish.
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now recording. I'm not letting you do that again, by the way, I'm not letting you do it. I think they enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:I think the people liked it did the people like it?
Speaker 2:I have zero to prove that out, but I feel like they liked it yeah, I think the zero feedback is the proof that nobody to quote Fallout 4, nobody liked that.
Speaker 1:Well, I want to tell you that our podcast ratings probably haven't gone down, and if that's the case, then I think I keep doing the intro and you're out.
Speaker 2:It's because no one leaves reviews.
Speaker 1:I looked at it yesterday and there's like 14 reviews and they're all amazing. I love it yeah.
Speaker 2:It's all five-star kind, kind words from good hearted people that we love, that we cherish, that we we just want to cradle and baby forever. Thank you, those of you that love those kind five-star reviews. You know we get we get over a hundred listens an episode now. But you know what I don't have? I, I don't have 100 ratings five star. So guys, come on, someone's not doing their job. Yeah, leave us. If you're not going to join the Discord and you're not going to buy us a coffee, then leave us a rating. You have three options to pick from Three.
Speaker 1:Count them three and two of those options are free.
Speaker 2:Two of those options are absolutely free. Yeah, I mean two of them. It's the whole fast, cheap, good right like we're actually allowing you to pick three in this case support the pod, keep it ad free, which we are going to be ad free for the next year. Join the discord, hang out with the coolest people on planet earth and Clark and and leave us a review how dare you, how dare you live in front of my friends, my family, my children, my children?
Speaker 2:you're gonna do that to my children yeah, I'm doing it to your children today, right here, right now.
Speaker 1:Your legacy has been tarnished oh, I deserved it after that last intro. I mean, I listened to it. It was really funny. I I literally texted you the second. I listened to it. I died. I literally died laughing in car. I almost crashed my car and that was it. You might have never been able to podcast again. We would have ended on that note.
Speaker 2:All for the sake of a joke. You could have died. That's great. All because I stayed silent in the beginning. What a choice.
Speaker 1:See, a lot of people think like the choices that I make every day are in consequence, they don't really matter. But if you really think about what could have cascaded from that decision you made, that could have been the end of CorporateStrategybiz as we know it.
Speaker 2:All because I right clicked on the audio track, set it to times two speed, synced it up with your nonsense and let it rip like a Beyblade. Let it rip, baby. Let it rip it rip. Hey, you know what else rips. What's that? The corporate strategy podcast could have been an email. I'm bruce and I'm clark. Wait that was nice.
Speaker 1:We haven't done that was it no, we haven't done it okay, we're doing it right now.
Speaker 2:Hey vibration inquiry clark pinkies out for analysis how you hey Vibration Inquiry Clark Pinky's out 4A analysis.
Speaker 1:How you doing 4A. I'm doing good. I don't know where this week went.
Speaker 2:Me neither.
Speaker 1:Like I feel like I just looked at you in this exact same spot, at the exact same time, like an hour ago, and it's been a week.
Speaker 2:Well, now you've given away the secret to when we recorded this episode well, now you've given away the secret to when we recorded this episode.
Speaker 1:Well, no, no, no, because they still haven't gotten it, they still haven't guessed it correctly in the last one until that's true well, no, by the time we release it, they'll know this will be live monday at 8 am.
Speaker 2:We're not posting the poll next week. Forget it, forget it. You've ruined it. You've ruined everything. Clark, you know what? Roll back the tape, shut it down.
Speaker 1:We're done we're done the shortest episode ever. Just edit this out. It's really easy. Don't tell them we said anything.
Speaker 2:We do a ton of edits on this, no one needs to know.
Speaker 1:Like how you said it's super easy, Like you've edited a podcast before, never in my life have I recorded and edited and done anything for corporate strategybiz, but show up yeah and I didn't do anything for CorporateStrategybiz, but show up, yeah, and we love you.
Speaker 2:We love you for it. So you had a good week, though I mean it went fast, right, that's good, went by quick, but I'd say it was relatively productive.
Speaker 1:Email stayed low, ooh Team, chats fluctuated high. I brought them back low Friday third in a row super productive. Nice, super productive Friday.
Speaker 2:Nice, that's good. I did physical therapy today, so I wouldn't say it was work productive, but like life productive. Yeah, yeah, you okay. Yeah yeah, I'm dying. But you know like good it's good, I'm becoming one with the earth. I will be dirt. No, I have a funky upper right tra trapezes, probably for mouse use if we're being honest, I mean so I've been.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am. So I've been going to physical therapy twice a week and it's been intense. But, uh, if, like, if you've never been to physical therapy before, like go try it sometime, because they're just going to work one part of your body till it screams at you and uh, it's fun, fun, it's good time, it's not fun.
Speaker 1:don't listen to him. I've I played a number of sports balls in my life and been to physical therapy many times and it sucks, it is brutal, like you don't realize you don't realize you can work muscles in certain ways, until they show you exercises and stretch you ways and you're like I'm not supposed to do that, like that shouldn't be legal.
Speaker 2:And that is what I've learned from physical therapy is holy cow. You can work your upper traps and shoulders and, like you know, upper arms in so many fun and painful ways, all with rubber bands, and you know lightweights. It's like nothing, nothing machine or hard. It's just like hey, land this ball and raise your arm this way, 20 times a, holding a two pound weight. Trust me, you're going to want to die by the 15th rep. It's crazy. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:It is my favorite thing, like I've seen really massive, strong men have to, like they'll tear their rotator cuff or something and they'll be in the robbery and like. You see them with these tiny little like two pound pink weights and they're dying, they're literally dying, sweating like dripping sweat, and you're like, yeah, they just didn't understand how to work this really specific spot that they're getting therapy for and that's what they told me is because you know I do water rowing.
Speaker 2:That's my primary exercise. I'll water row three, four times a week, 30 minutes, and I guess I rowed too much over relying on my traps. And you pair that with bad mouse use and bad posture at the PC, which I should be standing right now. Maybe I'll raise the desk next time you talk, but you put those two things together and you get a flare up. So I'm glad I'm doing it. Highly recommend it If you have pain, get it dealt with. Don't live your whole life regretting you didn't take care of yourself, tomorrow, today.
Speaker 1:Agreed.
Speaker 2:Yesterday.
Speaker 1:It's a good life lesson that you're giving right now, and I'm going to tell you why. If you go up, I'm going up. That's the rule. So you tell me when you're going to go, and then we're going together. Three, two Bye Clark, one Bye Clark. Nobody can see this, but we're both going away from each other.
Speaker 2:I'll see you on the other side. I'm going to keep talking so you can tell the microphone's getting closer to my face as the microphone moves up and down.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I'm doing the exact same thing. Was this necessary in the middle of the podcast?
Speaker 2:No, we could have done this before the show. We should have done this before the show. Oh man.
Speaker 1:Classic corporate strategy. I can't remember what we talked about. That was all the way down there, and now I'm all the way up here and I don't even know what we're talking about anymore.
Speaker 2:The vibes are different. Standing it's a different show, you can tell. You can really tell Poll for the audience. Could you tell we were sitting in the beginning? Hey, I got some news.
Speaker 1:Hey, you want to jump the new, well. Well, I thought I had one more thing to ask you about oh sure ask no physical therapy. Okay, you took care of that. Is it like did they give you a timeline or are they just like?
Speaker 2:yeah, they think it can get done in three weeks. I do need to like set up a quick check with my doctor because they can only give me three weeks of attention without a referral. So I need to like do a quick tele telehealth check with my doc to get the referral. But I mean, I am feeling better and fortunately, the biggest thing that they've done is given me home stretches and home exercises which as soon as I start to feel that feeling I can do them and it lightens up. So I'm there. They said they think three weeks I'll be good, right as rain and I do feel stronger. I mean doing these. You know I've been going twice a week and doing exercises every day. So it's good, it's great, two weeks down.
Speaker 1:One week to go. You gave a great life tip and that's what I, that's what I was talking about down there before we got up here. Yeah, it goes from the bottom. Now I'm here, started, started from the bottom. Now we're here. Great call. Yeah, you start with. You have an issue, you have an ailment. You need to deal with that ailment. So you go to get like all the care or the work done, whatever, and it's kind of reactive. You know you already have the issue, you're just dealing with it. You need to shift your health to be preventative. That's where you want to get. Do preventative exercise, go walk, go exercise. Deal with that fungus that's in between your toenails. Do it now, because it's only going to get worse, and I found this out with teeth, I found this out with physical injuries. You want to get to a preventative state and over time it'll save you time, it'll save you money and it'll save you a lot and a lot of pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, this has been, this has really been.
Speaker 2:The last two years have been me meeting my health deductible every year. Honestly, if, if you do suffer with numerous ailments, go for the high premium deductible so you're paying more a month but you hit your deductible sooner because you will save money doing that, which is what I did this year and let me tell you it works because, like now, I'm just getting free physical therapy because I've hit. I've hit my deductible, so it's no longer an issue. But if you have multiple things like I had my gastro problem, I had my sinus problem, I have the physical problem I've been doing all this stuff to make my life better and it is like you.
Speaker 2:You find when, when you have better health, you work better, you live better, you feel happier. You're not like the Clark or the Bruce of two years ago that was just down in the dumps every episode, crying in the microphone, like, I highly recommend you do it and go for the high premium deductible if you are going to go that path. But to your point, you should not live in pain or suffering because of something that you can take care of.
Speaker 1:Do it. Today. A lot of people say like, oh yeah, I'm going to save time, I don't want to go to the doctor and like, deal with this thing, it's going to take up so much time and all the time for me my life is too much going on. But in reality it's just going to prolong the issue and it's going to make it 10 times worse and those things will, over time, accumulate, get worse and worse and worse, and so you get to a point where you're like, okay, now I got to deal with this, and then it could be years or it could be unrecoverable damage that you do to your body. So, yep, that's good, it's a good tip. This has been the corporate strategy health podcast.
Speaker 2:I is to find a holistic doctor because I really want to improve my immune system and my current like everything is always just antibiotics and I'm tired of that. So I want to. I want to really lock down what's going on. Why do I get sick so often? If I can get my immune system unlocked, that's it. It's, bruce is now 100.
Speaker 1:Optimal, like I'm ready for it at that point you're on a whole level and then you'll get the uh, the neural link in your head and boom, you're a computer.
Speaker 2:No, but but sure. I watched that video, by the way, like it was good, right, it was insane. I was shocked by the results of that. Like truly interesting stuff I still wouldn't do. Like even after watching, the video is cool as it is, I wouldn't do it. It's mostly just because, again, I don't need it. But, dang, is it like man. If there was zero risk, if you could promise me like my LASIK surgery, if you could promise me there's 0.0001% chance something goes wrong, then I'd be like maybe yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's say it's like in a ton of people. It's, it's tested, it's pretty proven, like you're going to be fine and it's been a good couple of decades of like working really well. Then I think I'm in.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's kind of the exciting thing for me, cause you know I'm a big gamer I like to play the video, I literally so just hobby alert, astrob. Just hobby alert. Astro Bot came out last week. That game is so freaking good. I beat it in a weekend, man, I was just like 32 hours of me Astro Botting Good lord, game of the year so good. If you have a PlayStation 5, you should buy that game because it's just perfect. It's what Mario wishes. It was. I feel like Mario has become a little stale. Astro Bot's like hold my bot, wish as it was. You know like I feel like mario has become a little stale. And astrobots like hold my, hold my bot. I'm about to show you how we do it. But you know like eventually the point is, the point I'm trying to make here is eventually, years from now, I will lose my reaction time. Right like I like playing competitive shooters, I like playing online games and coming in, you know close to the top.
Speaker 2:When I can, I will lose that edge, but with neural link I will be able to retain it. So you know, that's just that's just what I'm thinking like.
Speaker 1:Maybe 10, 20 years from now, when the, when the old joints start to slow down, get that get that neural link installed the arthritis sets in at that point I'm totally getting her awake yeah absolutely Totally doing it.
Speaker 2:So here's a question. I know we're like I haven't even got to news, hey. So here's a question. You know there's all these studies now that are basically getting to the point that, like through DNA manipulation, through the ingestion of baby's blood, we're going to be able to live forever. So what do you think, clark, like would able to live forever. So what do you think, clark? Would you rather live forever and have to work forever, or just retire and get 20 years until you're 80 and then die All?
Speaker 1:right, I want to hear your answer first.
Speaker 2:I'm going to die. Give me that 20-year vacay, then death. You know what I'm saying, saying like, unless, unless you could promise, unless, unless I got to a point where, financially, my investments were able to make enough money that I didn't have to work, because, like, I'm not against working forever, but I certainly don't want to work corporate forever. You know, like, if I'm just I don't know doing a podcast for the rest of my days, that's fine, I could do that then it's not so bad when you're having fun does it count as work?
Speaker 1:you know?
Speaker 2:bingo. I need to have a job where I'm having fun and I'm not doing it every day for eight hours a week. Right then, then the live forever doesn't sound so suck. But if it's the only way you could live forever is by working for amazoncom, because they're going to give you the baby's blood to keep you alive, then it's like no no thanks, I don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's the. That's the asterisk I want on this is if it's doing something I enjoy doing, then I'm in. Yeah, I'm in, I'm okay living longer. But if it's like, yeah, it's just going to be suck every single day, my cac score is going to be super low, I would rate it on the cac scale. If I can get on the cac scale and I can get it the right CAC rating for me, for my CAC, then I think I'd be down to do it.
Speaker 2:But if it's going to be on your.
Speaker 1:CAC scale. I'm out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just for those who might be new or haven't listened in a while, cac stands for Culture, autonomy, challenge and Compensation, and that's the way we rate workplace happiness.
Speaker 1:So just in case just in case, yeah, go back and listen. I don't know what, I don't know what episode was.
Speaker 2:We talked about it many, many times, just look up c-a-double-c and you'll know.
Speaker 1:You know who's having a horrible cack right now.
Speaker 2:Who's that? Boeing? That's right. I just transitioned into news. Whether you liked it or not, boeing workers just went on a strike. Clark 33,000 employees today. For what they were offered? A 25% wage hike and better healthcare. They want 40% and they're going to strike until they get what they want. The company was already suffering tremendously. What was it? I saw a number somewhere. Obviously the plan's falling apart nonstop. It isn't really helping them as a company. It's been a number somewhere. They were just. This is I mean, obviously, you know the plane's falling apart nonstop Isn't really helping them as a company, but it's been a bad year. It's been a bad year for Boeing and this is the legit equivalent of kicking a man while he's dying. I kind of love this, though. Like exciting.
Speaker 1:I love that everybody grouped together Like 25% Come on man, we're already underpaid. Yeah, I love that everybody grouped together like 25% Come on man, we're already underpaid 33,000 employees.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I can make or break the company right there Like if no one wants to work there, Yep, and you know it's just interesting times because Boeing is the plane manufacturer, right, Like there's there's a super max or no, that's who makes the super max? The other, the other plane company?
Speaker 2:What is it? I'm asking you, regardless, uh, regardless. There's not much competition in the space, but, uh, I think it'd be really interesting to see how this plays out, like if the company dies. That's super interesting because boeing is everything everywhere, like military, space, business, commuter travel Like this is huge, big news.
Speaker 1:Airbus, airbuses, I think, airbus, thank you. They're main competitors. Yeah Well, I thought for a second. I was like, is the Airbus just a plane from Boeing? But then I looked it up and it's no. Airbus is actually another company.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, you know the boeing 737, and there's like the airbus supermax. Right, like they, they put their company name in front of them. But uh, yeah, interesting times. I would love to see more plane manufacturers.
Speaker 1:Just like everything, competition's good right yep yeah, no it's interesting is where's where the headquarter quarter out of. You have any idea? I think it's. Uh, I'm looking up right now boeing virginia. Oh, interesting so the reason I brought it up is I feel like a lot of the strikes that that happened, that I've seen, are like on the west coast. You know, just because I think people will think differently on the west coast I don't know if that's I think, northeast, northeast.
Speaker 2:Okay, fair enough you get a lot of unions Northeast. Remember when we had the union episode with Keelan. Even she is based in the Northeast. There's a lot of strikes that happen up there. I mean Jimmy Hoffa, the whole unions of the days of yore. You associate those with the Northeasterners, but they're big strike Northeast, big strike country. I think you're seeing it West coast because it's become so ingrained with tech.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is located out there. Yeah, absolutely, I think that absolutely ties into it. I love it. Good for them going against evil Corpo and be like, hey, we're underpaid. 25% just gets us. I don't know if this is actually what they're striking about, but 25% just gets us to like where we should be.
Speaker 2:We want know if this is actually what they're striking about. But 25 just gets us to like where we should be. We want to be above where we should, because this is freaking boeing people. Yes, I love it, it is freaking boeing and I feel working there now is almost it's insulting. You know you're hurting your. I work at boeing. Well, that sucks. Uh, are you? Are you gonna ruin our thing when you come work for us? So yeah, they have. They have to reclaim the throne. They need to fix themselves. They need to respect and pay their employees more. So it's good news 100% agree.
Speaker 1:100p. Great news Thank you 100P.
Speaker 2:All right, I know we're doing a quickie so said Clark but here we are. I got a topic for today and it should be one that warrants a quickie. Okay, I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on this. Ooh.
Speaker 1:What is good enough. I totally thought you were going to be like what is my middle name?
Speaker 2:Who is?
Speaker 1:Batman, where's Rachel?
Speaker 2:Oh, I had to do it, I had to do it, I had to do it. Yeah, what?
Speaker 1:is good enough. What is good enough? Is there any context? Or you just want me to like ramble Cause I can ramble?
Speaker 2:You could ramble, but I think I think you know what I'm saying Good enough, and you and I are different on this, which is why I think it's a good topic, right.
Speaker 1:What is? It's a good topic, right, and what is good enough? When do you say that's fine, ship it.
Speaker 1:It reminds me a lot of the episode that we talked about trusting your team, helping your team grow and saying, you know, and creating that safe workplace, and saying like, hey, 80 is good enough, you know they're 80 of where they needed to be on this. Not that they did 80 of the job, but like I expect a certain level and they got 80 there and like that's, that's good enough. I think that's where my head initially goes. But, like on a personal level, I don't think I have a good lever of like where that is, and I think it goes back to what you were saying, like we have really high expectations for our work and what we do and we go above and beyond to do it and we're just type a people like that. So for me, good enough is like I don't really have a level of good enough. It's like I want it to be perfect. Now, at some point I hit like a level of fatigue. I'm like, okay, I can't, I can't keep doing this.
Speaker 2:Or I hit a deadline.
Speaker 1:I'm like, okay, I got to have it done, but I don't know if I had that level to be like oh yeah, I did it. I'm good and then step away from it. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:It does, it does. How do you define perfection?
Speaker 1:How do you define perfection? How do you define perfection?
Speaker 2:How do you I don't need a definition, but like, how do you, clark, determine what is perfect?
Speaker 1:You want me to Urban Dictionary it for you Perfection. Please don't.
Speaker 2:Not on this show. You're so quick on this podcast.
Speaker 1:How do I define perfection?
Speaker 2:It's so good for the task. Yeah, that's why I'm asking right, like you say, personally, you want it to be perfect, but like what is perfect for you yeah, what's that standard of perfect?
Speaker 1:it's like does it just do the bare minimum of?
Speaker 2:what it? Needed to and it really can't be perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, in a really simple term, it's like did it get me from point A to point B? See, that's functional to me, but it's perfectly functional and you can go as crazy as you want with it to make it perfect or flawed. Sure, it might have gotten you from point A to point B. What if it was rocky? What if it was a bumpy road? Right, what's?
Speaker 2:the thing right. What's perfection? Perfection. Is it fast, is it slow? Does it get there? Does it get from point a to point b as fast as I want it to get from point a to point b?
Speaker 1:was I comfortable music as I was going from point a to point b to put me in a good mood? Did it leave a good memory?
Speaker 2:did it spark joy? Like I feel like perfect is impossible. That's why, why, that's why I ask right, isn't there? Perfect to you is something that is different than perfect to me, but I don't believe in perfection.
Speaker 1:There is a saying it's in the eye. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:Isn't that?
Speaker 2:the same. That's the old age, old youth. I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but sure but but yeah, I mean to your point.
Speaker 1:It is all relative and my what I have in my head for something when I think about perfection is going to be different than what you think in your head when you think about perfection. Well, at different expectations.
Speaker 2:I don't believe in perfection. I think perfection is perfection. Is what is it? Uh, it's a fool's errand.
Speaker 1:It's not possible, because let me ask you this go ahead, go ahead, yeah when you see something that you just chef's kiss is that the italian hand pinch? Yeah, like on the mouth, make the noise and then you like throw your hand in the air, the chef's's kiss. Huh, when you see something like that, is that perfection. No, okay, no, even better. Relative example to this podcast Astro boy.
Speaker 2:Astro bot, astro boy. Astro boy is something completely different, but continue.
Speaker 1:Yes, when my head went when you said it initially, I was like is he talking?
Speaker 2:about Astro Boy. Astro Boy, no, okay, but.
Speaker 1:I thought you knew I swear, I swear.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing. Here's the thing Everything can always be better. Like even my favorite things of all time, right, like my favorite movies of all time could still be better. There's things that I'm not even thinking about, that can, and, as time goes on and I revisit these things, I'm like man, this could be better. As I think about it, this could be better.
Speaker 2:Right, perfection is an impossible state to get to, but good enough is great. Good enough is great because good enough means you've put something out there that will stand, hopefully, the test of time as being good enough. And for me, the reason why I wanted to talk about this is when we think of legacy, of the work we do, which we don't often right, because everything's always next, next, next, move on, move on, move on. I just want the work I do. If someone picked it up four years from now because they found it in a Google search and saw it, that they would still enjoy it, right, like that's my only goal. For me, that's good enough is, even over five, ten years of time, this still hasn't lost the initial value that I put into it. Good enough, it's not perfect. I'm not chasing anything beyond, you know, awards or anything like that, but does the thing bring value years past and that's good enough for me. I like that perspective, but it's not your perspective.
Speaker 1:No, uh-huh, it's not. But it's not your perspective. No, uh-huh, it's not. But but it's interesting, like as you think about, like the 80 rule that we talked about, think about like things you use or haven't have stood the test of time. The vehicle, the car 80 was good enough, like it did what it needed to do, right, and have you really seen anything more than 20% in change in a vehicle, in what the last 60 years or 70 years Probably not right, 80% is?
Speaker 2:probably generous. Look at the difference between a Mustang from the 50s and today. Yeah, they look different. Yeah, they're no longer steel body frames, they're. You know they're a combination of things for safety reasons, but, like the car is still the car, you know, we've optimized individual pieces of it, exactly Four wheels, what is it? Six windows, two to four doors, mm-hmm trunk hood. There are things that make a car a car and you're not getting past that 20 innovation, even even the, the weird cars of today, like let's just take the tesla as an example for innovation. Right, we got rid of fuel, so we got rid of the gas tank and we've added in some some cool computer automation like that's. That's the biggest stretch we can do is we've changed the energy source, but there's still four wheels, there's still four doors, still six windows, still a car 80%, it's still the same.
Speaker 1:Let's take a tech example. Okay, new iPhone 16s just came out, did they? It just came out. What's cool about them? Marginal improvement on top of a proven product, no innovation. The 80% let's say 95% is exactly the same as it was last year. You got upgraded battery, you got upgraded chip that'll never use the capacity of because it's a nicer camera.
Speaker 1:I got a nicer camera. I got a new button. That's a camera capture button that you can like soft press and zoom in and zoom out. It's kind of cool. It's still a handheld phone that's in my palm doing the same things it did when it came out in 2007. Yep, marginal improvement on top of the 80 good enough, standing the test of time. Yeah, and know it's interesting when you talk about like that good enough, when that good enough gets disrupted. That's innovation, Correct?
Speaker 2:But does the and this is my question disruption? Does it need to be perfect? No, yeah, because think about the first iPhone. Sure, I mean, yeah, okay, someone's going to write in the comments iPhone wasn't the first. Whatever, you know what I'm saying. Don't do that, Don't be that person, but think about the first smartphone Restate. It's not perfect by any regard, but it shook up enough with innovation that it paved the way. It was good enough to be successful, to lead the path for things like iPhone to come in with that less than 20% improvement year over year and to become the number one bot thing on the planet. Very true.
Speaker 1:Good enough is good enough. Good enough is good enough, and stressing over the 20% will usually not gain you any victories.
Speaker 2:And I think that's the thing too is we can get in our head about things, which is why I wanted to talk about this. I see it happen. People like, oh, I really want to do something special with this, and what they end up doing is wasting a lot of time for something that might not work the way that they're thinking that it's going to work. Right, and I do feel like that's part of the risk of getting away from good enough. You want to have innovation, you want to have the opportunity to do those innovative sprints and have those ideas and execute on them, but it's give it's elastic, right, like you also can't get away from what's good.
Speaker 2:I think that's how the cyber truck happened. Yeah, right, it was a little bit of too much idea, not enough. Hey, what's good enough for a tesla truck? Right, because, like there's no doubt in my mind, had they just done like what rivian did and made a normal-looking truck that was, you know, it was a Tesla with a truck body it probably would have been a lot more successful and you wouldn't have all the people making fun of it all the time, but they went too far in the. This has to be innovative, it has to be new, it has to be perfect. Too far in the. This has to be innovative, it has to be new, it has to be perfect. And now they have this very strange problem on the market, which people will either blindly defend or just completely dump on any chance they get.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting, and you've probably heard the saying the last 20% is usually the hardest and the longest, correct, yep? And at some rate and this is with any tech project. You'll hear this. It's like you get to that 80 point and then you're like in your regression cycles or whatever for the product and you're finding millions of little bugs and you could find you could spend tons and tons of time solving those really hard issues, those really difficult to reproduce problems, or you could just ship the product that does 80% and is good enough.
Speaker 2:What's going to bring more customer satisfaction.
Speaker 1:Yep, a functional product or every single thing, perfect, optimized to the nines, perfectly executing across multi-environments, does that really matter?
Speaker 2:Especially when they might really need what's in there right now, today, and it's. We ship the product as it is today or we continue to refine that last 20% for another year and they potentially go with a competitor because they needed what you were selling now, not later.
Speaker 1:Is this really all about time management?
Speaker 2:In a way yeah.
Speaker 1:The search for perfection? Is it really just all about managing your time Like?
Speaker 1:getting to the 80%, realizing it's good enough, shipping it, saying it's done. So you can spend the rest of your time. That would typically get eaten up by the 20 for god knows how long. Doing something else, making something else better, that affects the 80, because you can look at this in so many ways. It's like get 80 done with the scope, the mvp scope, launch the product, spend 80 of your time focusing on the core or 80 core 80 of your customers rather than the 20. You know the people who are paying 20 million a year. If you just focus on those people rather than the other people who make up your 5 billion a year, it's like obviously you want to focus on people who are using your core stuff, not you know, the people who are just paying pennies for this kind of stuff. So that's your 20 versus your 80. This rule, really it can be used in so many different contexts when you think about it like that, but at the end of the day it comes down to time.
Speaker 2:That's it. Yep, I think it's time and I'm surprised you think it's only time, because I brought this up, because you are the PM. You are often the one the gatekeeper of ship, no ship. I think it's time and I think it's also understanding of what your majority customer is okay with. You know, like there is. I think time is the most important factor Because even if the majority is okay with you going a little bit of the extra mile, sometimes that's not good, right. But I think there is also that other piece, which is like understanding what your customer wants today and what they're okay with. What's good enough for them. Is it good enough for you? Is it good enough for the company? And then I think you've, you've found that magic formula to get to continued growth and I think I kind of bucketed those together.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cause that is time. It's really interesting to think about.
Speaker 1:And I going back to what I said at the very beginning, and you're probably better at this than me. I don't really know when to stop Like I don't know what that and that's my own lever. When I see other people's work, I know Like it's interesting now that I'm kind of thinking about it in retrospect. When I see someone's work, I'm like okay, don't spend your time doing like this detailed business case. It's going to take you three weeks to dig up the analytics and run the numbers and work with all the other teams. It's like just tell us the problem and we'll take your intuition and say, okay, let's just go do it. Like, give you the money, go and do it. So I'm really good at that with other people, but I'm not good with that with myself, and maybe it's because of the engineer in me. It's like when I know all the problems, as you're building something, you get so fixated on the 20. It's hard to pull yourself out of the weeds. I don't pay for therapy, by the way.
Speaker 2:this is my therapy, so I I I wondered if this topic would uh force you to think about some things. I was like this would be good for clark, because for me it's easy, makes sense yeah for you.
Speaker 1:So do you feel like you have a good gauge? You're just like oh yeah, I got this thing done. Do you think you're more efficient because of that?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. I know when to walk away, Always Like. I'm very good at setting deadlines for myself, knowing what good is, and I'm also fortunate in I know what other people want. So I loop them in at the right phase of review and be like this is good enough for me, you tell me what's good enough for you, I'll add it in, and then wipe our hands and we're done with this thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm proud of you. That's great.
Speaker 1:It's a really good rule and you know what sucks in big corporate A lot of things, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot and a lot. But I think certain leaders look for that perfection, they look for that 20% and like you present something, and they just dig into those small little details. You're like, okay, I can change the formatting on the damn slide for the 20th time, but does that really matter? It doesn't At the end of the day. Can you stop jerking me around and just give me whatever I'm trying to accomplish in this?
Speaker 2:I think there is a time and a place. Let's take the Steve Jobs of the world. We know that guy was an a-hole perfectionist and there's lots of horror stories about working for him. But look at the you know in the final years of his life, the products he released and the success of those products, and you could point and say, well, it's because he was a perfectionist. But I think I think we often forget the other 50 of that came from ste Wozniak and a lot of the marketing was perfect. But the product that was being built was being built by people that were really excited about it and knew what they wanted to put in there. And I think the spotlight gets shared unfairly. And even in marketing I've noticed a lot of the marketing leaders I work for are perfectionists.
Speaker 2:And, yes, certain people will get caught up on fonts, layout, pixels, like literally, oh, we're off by like 20 pixels on, you know, the left side, can we fix that? And yes, that does trigger certain people with obsessive compulsive disorders and designers who look at things like, oh, this is off by 20 pixels on the left side. If it's off by 20 pixels, then the product must not be good. You do get those logic leaps. I've seen it happen but I don't know, even for me. I feel like the majority of people are fine with that and again you know you're catering to that very specific upper 20 percent. That those pixels. I'm not buying your iphone because your website was off by 20 pixels, like and those are really happy those are not your majority of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really interesting.
Speaker 2:I know we're up on time. Clark, we are, are you?
Speaker 1:okay, I have one last thought on my therapist Okay. Because I've got to use up time. I think you should always strive for perfection, but realize when you hit the 80%, yeah and. I think, that's either by yourself, hold yourself accountable to that, which is hard to do, or you have a partner that's good like that for you, because I think the importance of review.
Speaker 2:What was that? It's the importance of review. Like I, could not be successful without review cycles. Right.
Speaker 1:Because I think you need someone to keep you in check sometimes, yeah, and it either be a timeline that keeps you in check, and I think that's what I do is like setting deadlines and knowing, like, when I hit the date, whatever's done and is done right. Um, something I've been talking about a lot and I know we're out of time, so I gotta hurry this thought of. Something I've been talking about a lot lately is is a law called parkinson's. Oh, bless you, it's called. Uh, it's called parkinson's law.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Have you heard of? Parkinson's law I know what the disease is. I've never heard of parkinson's law it's.
Speaker 1:It's the concept that work will expand to the time given. Okay, and I think that's the like. If you tell a team you're like hey, you got nine months to do this, it's going to take nine months. If you're in a meeting and you set it for an hour, it's going to take an hour. If you set it for 30 minutes, it's going to take 30 minutes.
Speaker 2:I hate this law.
Speaker 1:I don't believe in this no, no, it makes it in my head, it makes sense. It gets you to that 80 percent is what I'm saying. It forces you. Yeah, 80 percent, because we don't like that. Time you're done. Yeah, I kind of like it hey don't.
Speaker 2:I don't because it it. It immediately butts up against my own thoughts on what is required, what is needed. And well, I think the the big problem is you say it's going to take two months to generate some kind of white paper, and I'm like, well, no, it's going to take two months to generate some kind of white paper. And I'm like, well, no, it's going to take two weeks. And now I'm second guessing everything like oh, what does a two month white paper look like? Like, what more do I need to do to make this feel like it took two months of work? And suddenly the task doesn't feel logical anymore. It feels like an exercise in corporate of. Well, now we have to go get a source to cite, because you know that's going to add some credibility to this.
Speaker 2:Or we have to get a research firm to look at this and I'm like, oh, is this really going to do anything? Is this going to move that needle? So I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't like that, but I think you can shorten the time, like when, something like that. Oh yeah, not two weeks they tell you two months.
Speaker 1:It's like why not have it done in two weeks. I literally did that to a team meeting. I had like 40 people in a meeting and they were talking about a project plan for something and I'm like, why don't we do a live demo tomorrow, next, next wednesday? I'll give you one week, 9 am we'll do a demo and somehow, magically, they said they can pull off a demo. We've been working on this for six months.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I arbitrarily was just like sounds like you're pretty close, let's do a demo on this date and they're going to rally around and figure it out. So it kind of puts the constraints on it for them to say, okay, stop being perfectionists, we got to get this done on this date and at least show the core functionality.
Speaker 2:So it's an interesting thought. I think that's different.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I mean we're on time, but but.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anytime you put a constraint on something that's ongoing, immediately the mind goes into problem solve mode, right, like how do we package this? I think there's a healthy balance of that. I agree. I love that.
Speaker 1:That I love. I love, when that happens, Because like oh, okay cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that, that I love. I love when that happens Because, like, oh okay cool, I love constraints. I don't like wide open windows.
Speaker 1:This was a great combo, very philosophical. Today yeah, it's a philosophical episode I feel eerie. I feel like I don't know if we answered anything at all.
Speaker 2:No, we didn't Worst episode we've ever done, but we tried, which is good enough for me.
Speaker 1:We showed up, we showed up. I think that's the 80% right there?
Speaker 2:Sure was. I'm going to post this on Monday. Good enough, good enough, rip it. All right, I'm going to ship it. We don't have a meme. So good news on your time, clark. We have no meme to go through. I'm just going to hit this. We already said it in the beginning, I'm going to say it in the end we're ad-free because of one kind donor. If you want to help keep us ad-free, buy us a coffee. You can do so by going to the link in a little link tree. Everything's in there. And while you're there, if you haven't joined the Discord, click that link. Get in the Discord. The best people on planet Earth are in our Discord, no exaggeration. They're all there, and if you're missing out, you're missing out. Leave us a nice review. Sign up for the newsletter which is on our website. Corporatestrategybiz Stands for biznass Get on there. Biz dot. Biz stands for biz mass Get on there. And uh is nice. Let's keep the ball rolling. I'm Bruce and I'm Clark and you're on mute. We will see you next week.
