Speaker 1: 0:00

I'm in a mood today.

Speaker 2: 0:01

Say it to his face. You said it before he was even here. Say it now.

Speaker 1: 0:05

All right, shut up, craig. I'm in a mood today. I'm in a mood.

Speaker 2: 0:11

That's right, you freaking beaver About time you get in here. You're running late, you're squirreling us.

Speaker 1: 0:16

Why aren't you recording this podcast five minutes ago, when we gave the best advice in the world? Why weren't you in here? You missed all of it. This is why we I'm going to take an investigative, analytic look at our podcast funds and fees, and I think Craig's on the chopping block to go.

Speaker 2: 0:33

I agree. No severance package either. He's gone, no.

Speaker 1: 0:37

I'm going to turn Craig into an innie. Actually, sadly, I think Craig is an innie.

Speaker 2: 0:43

I was about to say I think he's completely severed because he knows nothing unless he's branded the channel.

Speaker 1: 0:48

Literally goes into a liminal space of non-existence when not recording this podcast, I can't imagine a worse fate. What's?

Speaker 2: 0:56

your job oh.

Speaker 1: 0:57

I listen to two knuckleheads talk about work for an hour every week. It's great, fantastic.

Speaker 2: 1:05

What was that movie or show where the robot oh, it's Rick and Morty. You pass butter, the robot. Yeah, the robot comes in and he's like my life is to pass butter. Yes, oh my god, yeah, that's his job so good, this is your job, craig, the only reason you're alive.

Speaker 1: 1:29

You know what our job is. What's that? Welcome back to Corporate Strategy a podcast that's going to be named I'm Bruce and I'm Clark.

Speaker 2: 1:37

It was quick this week. It was quick yeah you actually do. You think we'll ever go back to actually doing it without any banter? That's just how you do the intro With guest episodes.

Speaker 1: 1:48

I think it's just easier, unless it's like your recurring guest and they know the bit. But, like when I had my wife on, it was super awkward because it's just like I don't know how to talk to you like a podcast host. I don't know how to talk to you as a wife. How am I supposed to talk to you? Like I'm scared.

Speaker 2: 2:06

And you want to be more formal, more polite than we are with each other, so you don't want to like banter it up at the beginning and make them uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 2:13

Yeah, that's probably the only case. Yeah, yeah, no, I think guests Plural. That's the only way.

Speaker 2: 2:20

Yeah, I like it. What are you doing?

Speaker 1: 2:23

No, your turn, no, no your turn you go first, let me go first, you go first, okay what am I doing?

Speaker 2: 2:32

pinkies up vibe check.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Okay, my pinkies up in the air, vibe check. I'm doing swell. I'm doing swell. I'm still on my swell kick. Um, this week was long. Twice this week I woke up thinking it was Friday, wednesday and Thursday, so it was a long week. It was a productive week and got my big launch out of the way, which I have literally been working on this thing since November. I am so happy to have it behind me. We got one more big thing coming up. It's an event I got to go to San Diego for, and then it's like my life just becomes less stressed around deadlines and more just focused on doing work. So I'm seeing, I'm seeing the. I'm seeing the clearing at the end of the forest. The question is is the light in the, the clearing, is it clear or is it on fire? Only time will tell and I must walk into it, so we will see.

Speaker 2: 3:30

But I'm personally doing great, doing, doing great I love the excitement coming out of you right now. I mean, that's a fair point. People always say, yeah, the lights at the end of the tunnel, but you don't know what's creating the light. Is it a whole city burning down because a nuke just took off? Like you don't know what you're riding that train into?

Speaker 1: 3:50

I'm just saying the light could literally be the atomic breath of godzilla just approaching you quicker and quicker by the moment, and all it's gonna be left to you is like it's gonna be like little shoes and the smoke coming off your feet. Yeah, that's all that's going to be left to you is like it's going to be like little shoes and the smoke coming off your feet.

Speaker 2: 4:06

Yeah, that's all that's going to be left to you. That's it. That's all that's going to be left. Yeah, I feel like that's my life right now, like we're about to have a really big launch. I say launch. You know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1: 4:16

In a month and a half. My launch is like one one thousandth of your launch, so just give the listeners an idea here. It's a pretty big deal.

Speaker 2: 4:25

Huge yes, it's huge, it's a pretty big deal. So we're doing this massive launch and, luckily, we've been doing a lot of beta testing, a lot of beta testing, a lot of active users just to really stress test the system, you know, and so far it's going really, really well. So I think we're going to be in a really good spot Even when we hit a hundred X what we're seeing right now in terms of volume.

Speaker 1: 4:50

I? When do I get to beta test your launch, clark?

Speaker 2: 4:54

when do I get to beta test, I might give you some premier access.

Speaker 1: 4:57

It's not too far away.

Speaker 2: 4:58

I don't think Okay Be on the lookout.

Speaker 1: 5:01

We'll be in touch. I Be on the lookout. We'll be in touch. I'm going to hold you to it. I'm going to hold you to this. You'll get to beta test it. You'll have a great time. Good, okay, I expect to. I expect nothing less. If otherwise, it will be all your fault. Do you realize? Any of my dissatisfaction is a direct reflection upon you. This will all be brought back up in your performance review, which I'll be sending to your management, so just be prepared for that.

Speaker 2: 5:26

There's only one rule when you beta test this, you are not allowed to fill out any survey. I want nothing from you. You just get to experience the beta and that's it. No feedback.

Speaker 1: 5:38

Your boss comes in on Monday, Clark. I got a survey from someone named Bruce no last name. No, Bruce Corporate Strategy. I don't think that's a real name. They said he needs improvement on every category. They also said someone named. Clark, specifically, has really failed them. Who is Clark? Who is this person Said specifically?

Speaker 2: 6:11

he attacked me in plain sight and this needs to be escalated. This needs to be escalated to management.

Speaker 1: 6:20

Why is a knife-wielding maniac named Clark experiencing our beta? That's all I want you to go through in life. Is that specific review with your manager?

Speaker 2: 6:30

He kept going on and on about how he has all this intel on what we're doing. He's going to release it to the world to kill all of our marketing campaigns and he's threatening to do it on what he said was episode 175? I don't even know what that means. Do it on what he said was episode 175. I don't even know what that means.

Speaker 1: 6:46

His one to man was a copy of the PlayStation one game, Pepsi man, only released in Japan. I think we need to send it to him. This feels like an imminent to him now.

Speaker 2: 6:59

This is going to compromise our whole launch. You better get this done.

Speaker 1: 7:03

You better, you better, and that's how we do the live stream. This is how we're going to compromise our whole launch. You better get this done. You better, you better, and that's how we do the live stream. This is how we're going to get the live stream. I'm going to hold you hostage and no one's going to know. But we are going to get Pepsi man, I promise you.

Speaker 2: 7:15

I love it. I am so in for this. So yeah, my life in the next three months. It could either be great or it's going to be great, or it's going to be a burning fire of hell, and I don't know what the end of the tunnel is for me right now. I think it's going to be good because all signs indicate greener pastures and everything's going to be glorious, but we'll find out month and a half two months.

Speaker 1: 7:37

speaking of signs, yeah, I saw a sign. I saw a road sign, a road sign for the beta, which I thought was interesting. It wasn't like set up, it was on the road. I was like, oh, this is where road signs get made.

Speaker 2: 7:57

Interesting. You've got to be creative in your guerrilla marketing, you know.

Speaker 1: 8:00

Well, I mean, I think this is more like government road sign, but yes, yes, it just got me thinking about things in general. Anyways, I can't be talking about betas, all. All pod. We have a top, we have a. We have quite a few topics that have like built up over the years of us not listening to our listeners. But I read one and realized I actually never read it. But we have to talk about this. Uh, I'm dealing with this, about this. Uh, I'm dealing with this, you deal with this and I I'm dealing with it both directions.

Speaker 1: 8:28

So this comes from Monroe, previous guest on the pod. Uh, she wrote managing perceptions when you are highly ambitious and a high performer. I've consistently run into colleagues and leaders those directly impacting my upward mobility who view high capacity as doing a lot. Or why not focus on your current role or learn when to say no? I take it to heart, but I consistently execute on time and early in all areas I'm involved with, along with high quality output parentheses confirmed through feedback through my end of year review last Friday. It leaves me frustrated and like I can't believe I didn't read this earlier in the month. But like I live this, I think you live this, and I've also got a team that lives this, so I figure we can bring some insights to the woes and the bains of being a high performer working outside of your often day-to-day responsibilities this is immediate reaction yeah, I want to know what's.

Speaker 1: 9:33

What's your immediate reaction?

Speaker 2: 9:35

one monroe, thanks for the banger always bringing the hits. This is going to be always, because I totally agree, I think we all kind of have lived in that space and I've lived in it. I'm recalling a few different scenarios where this has happened and in my current role I'll do present and then I'll move into historical where, like it started and I started getting this kind of sense. So when you have a lot going on, you know, especially in my role, you can continue to just get more and more work and obviously leadership looks at everything that's going on and they think you're taking on too much and it's going to put higher priority things at risk, even though you consistently deliver.

Speaker 2: 10:21

And I think there's a little bit of fear from like leaders that you might show them up, that you might just be doing too much in general, that they want you to be doing other things other than the thing you're doing, except for they don't know what it is they'd rather you be doing. And so I think that's like the hardest thing about this situation is no one can actually articulate why I remember I was having a skip level meeting just because we checked in every month, why I remember I was having a skip level meeting just because we checked in every month and my current boss walked by the room and they looked at the skip level and they were like don't give Clark any more work, he's got plenty of work to do and I'm sitting in this meeting like I know.

Speaker 2: 10:57

I have plenty of work to do, and that's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for higher level work, not more work. There's plenty of work to do, but I want to be involved in something that's going to challenge me and where I'm going to learn, which will innately likely be more work. But it's not about the volume of work and the stuff I can do right now in my sleep. That's keeping me up. It's like I want to be ambitious, I want to do that next thing and be challenged, and unfortunately, I think certain bosses just won't let you do that, for many different reasons.

Speaker 1: 11:25

sorry, yes, when I'm not how you feel, no, no no, well, uh, I thought I think you were gonna start with your your current and then go back in the past. I thought you were gonna take the past back. Should I do it or we do current?

Speaker 1: 11:35

let's do current first okay, well, so, counter to your point, um, I've seen what you've lived through, but I don't live with that. Today, if anything, I have the opposite problem, where going outside of your role and taking on more things is greatly encouraged because that's the startup way, right? So, hey, I can take this thing on not my job, not even in my, not even in a department responsibilities but I can do it. Great, please do that, because we don't have people that can, uh, perfect examples. I have a teammate on my team who is just the smartest guy I've ever met and he's a technical wizard like you can give him any technical problem, it's going to solve it. He's our community manager.

Speaker 1: 12:23

This is the person who, like, runs our community, but also, you give him our product or, uh, you know a technical problem and he's going to go in there and find every single thing he can about it. Like, things that are, you know, our q, a and r and d aren't even finding. Like, that's just the level of intelligence this guy has. I'm like, well, your job is x, but given your talents and abilities and passion for these things, like, please continue to do this, because, one, it feeds into the marketing that we do, right. Like it's great to have technical authority and to like back up everything we say with like real good technical soundness coming from my teammate.

Speaker 1: 12:59

But also like who's going to do it right? Like we were lacking this before, now we have it, he's doing it. Do it right. Like we were lacking this before, now we have it, he's doing it. Yeah, it's not his job at all, but you know, thank Odin, he's in here doing the work because no one else will. But you can only do that at a startup. Because I think about working at Big Corp and he would literally get yelled at, wrist slapped, hit for doing this kind of thing there. Because how dare you step outside of your department and go help a completely different department with their work right? Like that's the difference in big corp and big startup is in one of these places it's highly encouraged, in the other it becomes like a don't go off and do this now, cause you've got your day-to-day responsibilities which you might be crushing. You might actually need more work because you're so good at what you do, but sometimes they're like don't be doing that.

Speaker 2: 13:53

Yeah, I think really what it comes down to, you know, with what you were saying, kind of brought clarity to at least my point of view. Yeah, it's not about what's best for the company, it's about what's best for that individual in their role and if you're not helping them advance their agenda, then they don't want you doing it. In big corp it doesn't matter. If you're doing something super important to help another group, it could be advancing their agenda, though it could be.

Speaker 1: 14:23

I mean, this is kind of the folly, right? You can tell me if you agree, disagree, but I think big corp is too stupid to realize that this individual could help their agenda because it doesn't fall under their checklist of or their excel spreadsheet of check boxes. And we have to. We have to paint by the numbers, because if we don't paint exactly by this number, the colors are going to be wrong and it's like, well, the colors were always wrong. Here's how you actually paint the picture that the customer wants to see, but like big corp hates that, yeah, you know.

Speaker 2: 14:55

I think that's part of it. I think another reason could be and I think it, you know it's so contextual to where you're at I think another part of it is having it happen where, let's say, you pick this up, you do really well at it. There's a couple things that could happen. You know one you could get like poached by this team to join their team because it could be something you really enjoy doing. So I think there's always that fear in the back of their head I'm going to lose this really good person because they're doing stuff outside of our realm that may get them interested in something and then leave because this team loves them. I think another thing that could be happening is you could build something and then a team becomes dependent on you for that thing, if that makes sense. So, like you, build a new system.

Speaker 2: 15:38

You help with something, you crush it. The team's always going to come back to you and be like, hey, can you do this thing again for us? And so I do think that's not necessarily a bad thing to look at. It's like OK, am I about to lose Bruce? Because he went and did this thing and now he has to support it, and we didn't like think about the logistics of it.

Speaker 2: 15:58

Just, bruce did it. Now he's on the hook for it because it's an important thing to the company. Now he can't do his main job because he's always doing this thing. That's taken off. I think you can mitigate that down the line, like, if it's as important as it is to the company and that detrimental, then it's like, okay, well, maybe it's justifying a new resource or a new tool or something like that that can actually do this thing better. But I think it is a decent concern from a leader that doesn't know all the details to be like okay, is this going to be like a one-time thing, or is this actually going to be like a every time they need it kind of thing, and how is that going to impact your performance long term?

Speaker 1: 16:32

Well, it's funny because in my case, I'll tell you exactly what I'm thinking. You know, I told my teammate this today. I was like look, you're very good at this. Like you're good at your job. You're great at your job, community loves you. You're also really good at this.

Speaker 1: 16:46

Like I would love to see you be a product manager one day, because outside of my podcast co-host, there's not a single intelligent product manager on the planet and it'd be nice to have two of them. Like it'd be really cool to have two. So, like you know, I can always we can always find someone to take your current job. But like the job you could be doing, doing like you could be helping us big way. So, like I know the way I think is not the way corporate things, because corporate's like no, you got to hire externally for that. Like you got to hire someone who's got the experience, not someone who can do the job, someone who's had the job. You know the idiots. So like that's, that's who we're gonna go for. But like man, that gears are turning, I'm like, oh, this would be, this would be so great, but you don't get that at big court.

Speaker 1: 17:31

Like very rarely does it play out that way where, hey, that thing you helped with you saved our bacon. Would you like to do that full time, with a pay raise and a little bit more? You know stock or whatever. Like let's go, we'll find someone to replace your current job. No, it's get back to your. Get back to your nine to five. You know what you did here was helpful, but never do it again. Like I feel like far too often that is the reward, is a chastising, and you feel like should I not do this, should I not help? And I think that's a lot of what Monroe is probably dealing with in her specific situation is when you go above and beyond with. In her specific situation is when you go above and beyond, suddenly this weird magnifying glass gets put on you, even when you're an A player and you're helping. It's like why are you doing this? Why are you hurting the vibe of the company?

Speaker 2: 18:20

Yeah. Yeah, it's so difficult too, because sometimes it's okay. I've had this happen where I'll do something and everybody would be so happy, even my boss be like oh yeah, this was great, so happy you were able to help with that and I wish I could say there was like a defined or a definitive reason for one or the other. Unfortunately there's not, and I think it's because your leader is privy to information you're not and has their own perspectives and political ideology of the different empires growing inside of enterprise and I think that's part of the challenge is like if you're doing something with the wrong group that they just don't like or have a bad opinion of, that can also look bad on you. So it's really difficult to find like, where can I go above and beyond and still stay in the good graces of my leadership, where it's going to be celebrated and not looked at as a negative? You know it's funny.

Speaker 1: 19:19

That was originally going to be our topic today, because I was like I want to have a talk, but we talk about when do you tell the truth versus when do you keep it a secret. But I was like, oh no, we have topics in the PodTop channel, so we need to come back to that. We need to come back to that. You're absolutely right, and I don't know Hidden agendas, I do think, play a big part of this though. Absolutely it really does. Right.

Speaker 1: 19:41

Like you never know, maybe that team they're helping is on the list to get axed and they're helping is on the is on the list to get axed and they're going to get all replaced with, you know, outsourced, cheaper labor and you helping them is not actually helping the grand division of how the company operates. So like, and that's that's just super effed up in general, but like I can totally see that being part of the logic. It's like, hey, we wanted to get rid of them, now you've helped them. This makes it harder to argue our case, kind of thing. It's that that back channel politics. I hate that.

Speaker 2: 20:16

Cold chills all the time time at big corp. And yeah, when you're enterprise, or when you're enterprise, when you're empire building you, you don't want to worry about anybody else but yourself, and so you're looking out for, like the survivalist mentality of your team. Screw the screw. What is best for the company? It's like that doesn't even matter. What matters is your team. And how do I hire more people to my team and take on more responsibility for the things that we can do? Well, and that's like the worst thing about corporate. It's like it's not about the end result, it's just about this person growing in their role, growing their team, getting more money, whatever, and the personal side of it takes over the logical side of the best thing for the company side. It's really unfortunate.

Speaker 1: 20:59

It really is. I want to read a response that was made by individual contributor in our discord. Also just a constant banger of an of a of a participant with all things pod. They wrote being told to stay in your lane without being provided a clear policy or performance reason seems like poor management. I could understand that being a concern if a person's core duties weren't being met to a high enough standard. I doubt that's the case here.

Speaker 1: 21:25

Not allowing people to work near their potential is a cack killer. I would say there's one area I found productivity imbalances can be a problem. I worked under someone who consistently put in long hours, was involved in everything and almost always worked far ahead from the rest of the team, whether due to efficiency, effort or inexperience. Not being able to work in the forefront of projects because someone always gets to the work first is discouraging. It can make it hard for the whole team to feel like they're contributing and being given an opportunity to grow. If you're already mindful of giving your team members space to achieve, I would definitely encourage discussing your goals with future management. A negative response is probably a good reason to execute plan X, which I feel adds even more layers to this topic. So what was your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 22:11

Yeah, I mean, I agree wholeheartedly. That's actually where I was going to go. Next is Danny Yonkers is screaming in the back of my head to be like this is a management problem. Like if someone on my team is taking something else on, I just go, stop doing that. I don't give them any rhyme or reason or like you know definitive reason why they shouldn't be doing this thing. It's discouraging. It's like okay, well, I guess I can't do anything without approval now and all my ideas might be stupid and I shouldn't help other teams. Like it creates such a terrible culture and I think individual contributors said it best. It's okay, listen, bruce, your performance was a you know, met expectations this year.

Speaker 2: 22:50

I really think you need to be focusing on how do you get that to a, you know, whatever highest achiever or whatever it is Like I want you to get to that, whatever that next level is, and before you start helping others and doing all these extra side projects, I need you to focus on your core job.

Speaker 2: 23:05

Like that's a good management discussion of being like I want your performance to be better before you take on this extra stuff. Like that's a good management discussion of being like I want your performance to be better before you take on this extra stuff and that stuff isn't going to help you get to that level. And so like that's a good, valuable discussion where it's very definitive on, goes back to your performance review, gives you definitive guidance on like you need to focus on your role, stay in your lane. In this case, once you meet that goal, I'm more than happy to talk about you know what opportunities are out there where you could help others or where we could challenge you more in your current role so you can continue learning and helping the broader organization. Like that's a really positive conversation if it's approached that way.

Speaker 1: 23:38

So I want to challenge that because I agree it is a positive, it's an inward facing approach, right, like you're telling me hey, you doing this is great, thank you, but this is not going to get you promoted, this is not going to get you that next 10% raise or whatever.

Speaker 1: 23:54

Like you're looking out for me, which is what a manager should do, I'm going to say there's a better response, which is not to talk to me at all but to go up and say, hey, we have a problem. I have a team member who is constantly helping this team, this team, this team, this team, because they're not able to do it on their own. Why is that? Like we need to dig into why they're deficient and they need my team members time all the time, because this is an a player, they're helping everybody. They're not able to rise in their own stock because they're constantly having to help others. Like now you're taking it and saying what's the actual problem that's going on here that requires all this cross collaboration and, as a manager, now you're you're helping, kind of elevate your own stock, saying, hey, you know, something's not working from an execution level. We need to evaluate and figure this out amongst the other managers and leaders.

Speaker 2: 24:54

That is a great response.

Speaker 1: 24:55

I agree and I think the hardest thing Because then you can fix the individual contributors problem while also fixing the wider organizational problem. That's clearly happening.

Speaker 2: 25:01

Yeah, no, I agree with you. At Enterprise, that will just never happen though.

Speaker 1: 25:06

No, it won't. But I mean I'm an idealist so let's go all day long. I'm going to call out the. I'm going to punch up whenever I can.

Speaker 2: 25:15

Yeah, absolutely, Because I think that's the hardest thing. It's like now, if you're even if you're a decent manager, it's like, well, now I got to go talk to all these other teams and why their teams suck and maybe how they need to upscale, Like that requires a lot of effort. And you, your manager, whoever's managing you, is going to be like why are you spending all your time doing this? Not that important.

Speaker 1: 25:37

Well, in an ideal world, eventually you find the manager who manages the managers and they would say, okay, what the heck is going on here, like why is no one capable of managing their team efficiently? And they should come up with a plan of execution to help rebalance and fix the problem. That's not going to happen because upper management sucks, myself included. So like you're just, you're never going to get that fix. But you know, in an ideal situation that's what should happen.

Speaker 2: 26:08

Let's look at another scenario. Let's say, like Monroe, high performer, so as a manager, what is a positive conversation there? It's hey, bruce, high performer, you're doing awesome. Really appreciate you helping out this other team. It seems like maybe there's an opportunity that we could find more challenging work for you, because you're doing everything you're doing now. You're crushing it. I think we could find more challenging work in your role so that you could spend your time focused on those efforts, so you could grow. Or it's hey, bruce, you know another way to look at it. It's okay if this thing is critical, you know I trust your judgment on this. What is the measurement of success? Tell me what success looks like for the long-term of this and let's see if we can get to that objective and then focus on our vertical, on how we take that energy and move it into our space to make our space better.

Speaker 1: 27:01

I love that. I think that's probably the most realistic, best response, because now you've set a goal. As a manager, you've done the one thing that you can actually do, which is what is success defined as? How do we either continue this effectively or stop doing it, because you've achieved what you needed to do. That's good, clark, that's good.

Speaker 2: 27:23

That's why you're a manager it's helping the individual grow Like it's it's saying like, as a manager, I could have, I could rip that away right now. That's an option. I could be like, don't do that, but that's going to be discouraging. I'm obviously too late. I didn't catch this before it started, so we can't have a conversation about it. They're obviously deep in it, they're passionate about it for whatever reason, like putting on my, my manager hat.

Speaker 2: 27:44

It's like this is going to be a detriment to them working here if I just say no. And so how do I at least define the success criteria, the end goal, make sure they think about that and then say okay, and then after that let's focus right back into our lane a little bit. So you kind of steer them back in and you have to balance that. You're like how big is the risk if they continue to do this? Like, do I really think it's going to have a giant detriment, or do I trust this person that they're going to be able to manage both their current day job and this extra thing? And it sounds like, in at least the Monroe's case it's I can do both and you can trust that person to do both. And now you as a manager have a challenge to say how do I get them focused on something to improve our area rather than having to go outside to improve other people's yep, I think the the good news is there's a lot more positive outcomes here than negative ones.

Speaker 1: 28:38

In good management, and I think individual contributors point if it is a negative outcome, plan, exit immediately, because it's not going to get any better for you. Um, but but but, just like uh clark and I have said in this past, like sort of hypotheticals, there's a lot of ways this can go and there's a lot of ways that this can be treated as a positive and and be a net positive both for the individual as well as the company. Yeah, 100 agree do you want to jump management?

Speaker 2: 29:07

oh it does but you want to go to the past where we can talk about bad management.

Speaker 1: 29:10

Hold on, I've got to fuel my DeLorean here. I've got a 1.21 gigawatt. I'm going to have to use some nuclear accelerator for Alright, we're in the past. We're in the past. Everything's great. I'm not going back. You can't take me, clark. I won't this. I'm not going back. Everything was great. You can't take me, clark. I won't go. I won't go, I'm staying.

Speaker 2: 29:32

No, clark, if you remember these times, I mean they were great. The pay wasn't great, but the role like what we were doing was great. When we started we used to be this cohesive, beautiful unit.

Speaker 2: 29:44

We were Just a bunch of freaking nerds Diverse group bunch of freaking nerds diverse group. It was a very interesting group of cultures and personalities and we were so naive to the point of great just being there in that naive little bubble at the beginning of our careers. Then we started diverting. You remember the breakage? I see the Fisher line coming in between our group and once we start going to these other teams cause we're going so well, this is when it all went downhill and the scenario I'm thinking of.

Speaker 2: 30:15

I remember I joined this, this new team, with this certain manager who will not be named, and my team was my team actually worked pretty well together, like individually, like between our team. We had a pretty fun team. Like we all hung out, we all played ping pong, we did all this stuff. It was fantastic, and so I wanted to get better as, at that time, a software engineer. I wanted to help my other coworkers get better as software engineers because we were learning a new tech stack. I was like you know what Weekly I'm going to set up a programming challenge. So I created this programming challenge.

Speaker 2: 30:49

Every week I was sending out this thing to my team. Somebody forwarded that to our manager, so I got called in the office. They pulled me aside and they're like why are you doing this? And I'm like, well, you know, I want to get better at this. I forget if it was switching language or whatever it was, but I was like I want to get better at this programming language and I want the team to do it with me so we can collaborate together. You know, create this collaborative working session where we can help each other through these coding challenges and we'll all learn together.

Speaker 2: 31:15

And so I thought it was a genius idea Like this is great. We all will spend time doing this instead of playing ping pong. Isn't that a better result? And he pulls me aside. He's like stop doing that. I think that's a waste of time. And I'm like I honestly didn't even know what to do at that point, like how do you react in that situation? Do you like actually fight it, or you just say like, okay, that was. I think that was my response. I was just like all right.

Speaker 1: 31:39

I mean, I thought it was a good idea. What can you say?

Speaker 2: 31:41

Yeah, it's like it's your manager and they just tell you to cut it out and you're like, all right, well, I feel really discouraged. You obviously don't think this was a good idea, and you didn't even really hear me out. All you heard was one sentence and you just told me to stop. And then all my team was asking me the next week like, hey, why don't we stop doing this? And I was like how do I respond now to not make this person look like an absolute jerk?

Speaker 1: 32:03

I have a. I have a side question before we proceed. Do you know if this manager made it in the big corp merger that happened in the last year? Did they? Were they part of merger? Do you know?

Speaker 2: 32:14

I have no idea. I hope not okay, I hope not, they were I.

Speaker 1: 32:19

I hated that individual so much. They were such a blight just on humanity. Like that attitude, that personality, the, the, the unflinching resolve to hurt morale, to hinder education, all at the sake of like being perceived as more productive. It's like just everything about that is so wrong. It's so wrong. And this person you made my jaw tense up in retelling that story. Thank you. The first strike has been felt.

Speaker 2: 32:56

Lower tier middle management. It's not like they were this important individual. It was first tier above an individual contributor management and on the back end of the worst part of the product to be working on.

Speaker 1: 33:08

They thought they were, though they thought because I remember like I didn't truly understand management at that time and like this person thought they were an executive, like in how they acted, how they operated, how they carried themselves, like they expected to be treated like an executive. This person was a freaking developer manager Like, bro, no one cares about you, you do nothing for this company.

Speaker 2: 33:33

Oh yeah, I'll give a positive, that's a negative.

Speaker 1: 33:36

I'll give a positive because in my past and we talked about this numerous times, we don't have to go deep into it Every time I've stepped outside of my role, I've gotten promoted and moved into a different department, so that's really benefited me. When I was a developer, our product was so technically complicated None of the sales engineers at the company could demo it. I started doing demos, not knowing that I was like helping the sales cycle, and then one of my mentors, jj, came in and said hey, you should do this for a job. They'll pay you more. I was like, oh, really Cool, I enjoy this a lot more. Anyway, yeah, went to sales because of that Like started just going above and beyond in sales.

Speaker 1: 34:13

I was speaking at conferences, I was coming up with presentations. I was doing a lot more than just the sales engineering thing. And my my mentor at the time, alex not Restrepo, another Alex said hey, you should do marketing, you're really good at this. And then I left and did marketing. So you absolutely can. But I will say like in both of those cases I was doing my job well, like I would say meets expectation on my current job and then was able to prove myself for other job as someone who could really bring value and change if we bring them into this organization. But I had to leave my previous job in both of these cases, which is why, you know, I'm having that conversation with my teammate today, like, hey, I see what you're doing, like I owe you what's been owed to me, like there's potential for your growth in the future if you follow this path. That's a real positive that it can occur. Or you can have what happened to Clark happen to you. So you know it's. It can go one of two ways.

Speaker 2: 35:09

Yep, yeah, I, I a hundred percent agree, and I think when you have good management, or at least good people around you, to your point, like those things can lead you into things you're more interested in and your natural talents might be able to shine more, which is why you should explore those things. Yep, and I think you know, in my case I did a planned exit on the team. I found a different team, but I stayed in the company and the second I went to that team. Like I was a little gun shy, I'm not going to lie. I'm like proposing new things because I was like well, is this just the way every manager is going to be? But as a new manager, like I showed him.

Speaker 2: 35:38

I showed the individual one thing and I was like, hey, check this out, like learning and challenging themselves, and he was like blown away. He's like I need like an hour with you to like go through this, because this is really, really cool and this is going to help me be a better manager. And I'm like that's what happens when you get underneath a good manager. They encourage those things and I remember there were times where I like started doing something, is like I'm trying to think about how this would be useful, and I actually think I could use your help with these things instead. And so, like he did his job, he went back and he said how do I find more challenging work that I need help with, that? I can put this talented person on and put the efforts towards that. And so he redirected that energy to something valuable.

Speaker 1: 36:19

You know what's wild about this whole conversation is like when I, when I read the topic and thought we should, we should talk about this in this episode, I was thinking about how you and I could talk about being this kind of a player and how there's positives and negatives for it.

Speaker 1: 36:33

But what we have talked about more than anything else is how management handles a players, and really the moral of the story here is don't be an a player under a bad manager, right Like when you interview for a job or when you get moved into a new department. If you smell that your manager is an asshat, then this is not the kind of role where you want to be that sort of expert outgoing. Let's go help these other people, Cause you're going to find yourself stuck and probably burning yourself out really quickly. But if you're in a manager that has good ability to navigate both upwards and downwards, the management structure that can help you find new opportunities, it's interested in, invested in growing you. This is the perfect opportunity to go that extra mile, prove yourself and move upwards in the company.

Speaker 2: 37:21

Yeah, that's such an important insight. It's like maybe that's what it all comes back to. You know, as we're kind of talking about this, it's like it does depend on your management. I don't think there's ever a scenario where a B manager or a C manager is going to encourage and support you in this ever. Nope. I don't think there's ever been a turnaround comeback story where it's like B manager hires a player, a player does all this work, b manager grows into an A manager. I don't think that has ever happened in the history of corporate time.

Speaker 1: 37:52

Nope, the only way it's going to work for you is if you have a B or C manager. If you start courting an A manager in a different department, like I'm going to help you, but you're going to help me too. Like and set those expectations. Like I'm really interested in your team. Like love to help you out, interested, you know, if you have any positions in the future, I would love to come work for you. Like set that out early, because you might find yourself in a situation where you're being punished for helping them with no exit beyond leave the company.

Speaker 2: 38:19

Yep, absolutely. I have two last thoughts. Lay them on me. One is once you get and I don't know if you feel this way, maybe not so much in a startup culture, but once you're well, no, maybe more, I don't know Tell me what you think.

Speaker 2: 38:34

So in enterprise, like when you're part of a big organization, you need to be looked at.

Speaker 2: 38:38

When you're in the management ranks and you're trying to grow as a collaborative and supportive partner to all those groups, regardless of what your boss thinks. When it comes to promotion cycles, the other bosses are going to make decisions on who gets promoted to the next level and they're all going to have to agree on it, and so when they do that calibration, they decide on promotions and everything. You want them to be supportive, as well as your current boss in your promotion. So your current boss will bring it up and if no one else knows about you, it's going to be really hard to get promoted. But if everyone else is like Bruce is that guy. My whole entire team loves him, they talk about him, they're so thankful he helps out with all this stuff, that's super important once you get to a certain rank but I said something key there it's your current manager has to propose it. You have to be on a good standing with your current manager in order for that to matter.

Speaker 1: 39:33

Completely agree. I absolutely agree, yeah, yeah, I mean, if this gets even harder, if you have that B or C manager, because it's very hard to please them and they're not going to fight for you because all they care about is themselves and keeping their little patch of land that they think gives them their power.

Speaker 2: 39:54

Yeah, if Bruce was a BRC manager, he comes into these calibration meetings like Bruce who you got for promotion this year. You're like no one. No, they all suck Working on the team. No one deserves me.

Speaker 1: 40:05

But I heard Clark was training people doing all this activity. Yeah, but he's not doing his job, Doesn't deserve it. You need to tell him.

Speaker 2: 40:12

Yeah, I'm really the only reason this team is staying afloat and that we're contributing back to the company, but I'm going to get my team there this year.

Speaker 1: 40:19

You're making my jaw clench up again, just clenching, it's happening Involuntary response.

Speaker 2: 40:26

Yes. Last thing when you're an A player and I think this is my most important note in the growth that I've had in my career In the beginning you kind of say yes to everything. It's kind of good to do that because you figure out a lot of things, you get to learn more parts of the business. It's good to do that. But at some point you have to say yes to the right things and you end up saying no to more than the right things. Right, and I think that's an important like growth perspective. It's in the beginning, you're just trying to get your name out there.

Speaker 2: 40:56

Once everybody knows who you are and they see you as that player, it's no longer about helping everybody if you want to get promoted. It's about helping the right people and doing the right things, which ends up being saying no to more and more. I think as I've grown in my career, like in the beginning, I was like yes to everything. I was helping every team, doing extra hours, whatever it took, just to get my name out there. But once I was well known, it was about. Now I need to say no to these groups because they're not going to influence my career. This stuff is not that important to the company, because I understand that, and then this is what I need to be doing. So I ended up saying no to more than I say yes to now.

Speaker 1: 41:29

There is a prioritization practice that has to occur, and this is where it requires a little bit of I don't know like keen, decisive dissection of the politics of your organization. Because if you go help the team that has Clark's manager or Clark's past manager on it, let me tell you what's going to happen. You just help the team that's going to appreciate you, but that manager is never going to sing your praises because they don't like you, they don't like anyone but themselves. Or you could help a team that has a manager that's like hey, I'm all about growing people, I'm all about the company, I'm all about you.

Speaker 1: 42:09

Know how do we make this place better? Clark's coming here, he's helping out. I just have to give him a shout out when it comes to your calibration time, Like, yeah, Clark's manager saying we should give them more. Other managers says, yeah, they come and help my team all the time. Definitely worth it. So you do have to pay attention to the politics and you do have to read the temperature of the business at the management level, which is going to be weird because you're always so focused on your peers and the other contributors at your level that you're never really looking up. But I will say, like if you want to play this game the right way, you need to look up and maybe even like one or two layers up who's looking at you.

Speaker 2: 42:50

Well said, and I think this is the career maturity. It's like in the beginning, once you I don't even know if it's career, organizational like time spent at the company. That's why you say yes to everything in the beginning, so you can learn who actually is good here, who's actually working on important stuff, who does leadership look at, and like all that is part of understanding the corporation. What's important? I should have started with this what's important to the business? And, like you don't learn that stuff until you start saying yes to things outside of your lane. And then, once you know that stuff, you know where to put that energy. You're like, okay, this is going to matter, this isn't.

Speaker 2: 43:22

And that's when you have to, to your point, be really strict on what you prioritize and I think that's you know. I don't know how many years that is. Some people can probably do it faster than others, but you can probably start getting a feel for that within a year. It's like, okay, I kind of understand how this business works. I understand who's good, who's A players, who's B players. I'm going to start saying no to everybody I was helping out prior because their stuff doesn't really matter the stuff that does.

Speaker 1: 43:54

Completely agree. I think that does. I think that's it. I think we did it, which is good because I've got great news, clark, oh no, I got great news. Oh no, guess what is it near? As a corporate. We sent out a challenge after the last episode. We said, hey, you got any embarrassing stories that can top what we've got? And then we said, if you got any embarrassing stories that can top what we've got, and then we said, if you want to do it, you go on the discord, you join the discord, you go to our link tree, join. Whatever you do, you do, you do you and you go to the is a mirror as a corporate channel. Forward slash confess and anonymous confessions will be shared with us that we can read live on the pod. And we've got two bangers you ready?

Speaker 2: 44:33

I have not read any of these because I'm so behind in the discord I'm gonna get caught up, I promise no don't worry, I got you I got you anonymous confession.

Speaker 1: 44:43

A colleague noticed that our boss is on a team's call while in the bathroom stall. Some people like to live dangerously. That's a good one, oh man.

Speaker 1: 44:55

I cannot tell you the number of times when I was in sales I heard toilets flush on the phone. No, it's more than 10. It's more than 10. No, 10?, yeah, yeah. And then when I go to conferences, when I go to work conferences this happens today, because I still work a lot of conferences I'll go in the bathroom and they'll just be like Sales Bro on the phone, dropping a dooski, making all kinds of noise and it's like oh, yeah, yeah, we got to close this business Tuesday. If it's not Tuesday, we're not making the deal. Oh, geez, sorry, I just ripped a big one. I just ripped a big and I just ripped a big and hopefully the deal closes. That like I'm not kidding man, it's bad, do not do this. I think so much less. Like I get it. Nature calls, as someone who lives with IBS, like I have become very good at okay, the meeting's wrapped up. I'm gonna run to the bathroom. I'm gonna do what I need to do. I'm gonna get back to my, my regular day, but like plan this stuff out.

Speaker 2: 45:57

Bake those five minute breaks into your day. Do not take the call from the toilet, please, please. You know this had me thinking. Is it because of what you said toilets flushing noises like? Is it just because you heard something? Is it because a camera turned on just like a blip and then turned off? Or is it because you are in the same bathroom with your boss and you know they're on that call while you're on that call and you're like, oh man, we're both in here together, but they're in the stall and I'm not. I know they're in here.

Speaker 1: 46:27

I mean it can happen either way. I mean in this case case, the boss is on the team's call while in the bathroom stall.

Speaker 2: 46:33

So like it has to be, has to be they stepped away, but the boss is still on the call, like yeah or do they just own it like the sales bro, and then they turn on the camera and be like all right guys, let's get this business done In the toilet. Hey, whatever it takes, whatever it takes, let's do it.

Speaker 1: 46:55

You know, as I pinch off this clencher, I just want to make sure you guys know that I love you. I care about your business more than anything in the world. That's why I'm taking this call right now. I'm going to give you a no wipe. All right, like I'm going straight to the sink wash my hands. Get back to my desk on this one If it gets the deal across the line for end of day business today. You know what I'm saying, bro.

Speaker 2: 47:17

I'm a flush this thing, and then we're going to hash it out. Hey, great work guys. Great collaboration man. I wish they had a bidet on this so I don't have to wipe 30 times.

Speaker 1: 47:23

Let's get this business going. So, so inappropriate, grossly inappropriate. We.

Speaker 2: 47:27

So inappropriate, grossly inappropriate. We have another one. Oh, I love that. Our second one.

Speaker 1: 47:31

President at the startup I worked at used to bring her tiny white dog into our fairly small office. Besides the fact that the Muslim guy on our team was terrified of dogs, the dog regularly took a dump on the floor. Reporting this to her was not a comfortable conversation. I'm dying. I'm dying. If you have anyone on your team, it doesn't matter their religious beliefs and they're afraid of dogs, that's a legit thing to be afraid of. My dogs have been attacked by dogs. I know people who've been attacked by dogs. Dog fear is real.

Speaker 1: 48:03

I had this sidebar Sidebar. Why are people so afraid of spiders when dogs do so much more damage to people than spiders ever have? I don't understand. Like I, I actually enable the spiders in my house. If I see you in a corner, I'll be like oh good, little spider, let me help you up. I'll like lift them up into the corner. Like build your web, keep the mosquitoes free. I see a dog running in the street. I'm like okay, am I going to have to defend my dogs from this rabbit beast that might chomp into their brain meat Like just a small sidebar, but anyway, clark.

Speaker 2: 48:41

I have no problems with spiders, but dogs, like as it gets into it's a beast, they're beasts. This is a wild animal that sure we we've tamed but at any point could snap. You know that that thing to go, absolutely animal like they are, could flip in their brain at any moment and start attacking for whatever reason so I 100 agree.

Speaker 1: 49:03

12 pound malty poo has bit into humans and larger dogs because he's an idiot like you cannot explain.

Speaker 2: 49:13

They're beasts, they're beasts we shouldn't have tamed them. That's really what you're saying. I mean it's. Some dogs are incredible. I'm a big. I'm a big animal person, but I do believe, like if crap goes down, I will take it out, I will do the needful, and it separates in my mind of lovable man's best friend to. This is a wild beast and I'm protecting my family. They have.

Speaker 1: 49:39

They have just rows of the sharpest teeth. You know like 100 percent to to the confession of this. Like I have been in an office where someone brought in their dogs before. Like I in my first tech job it was an internship I worked at a company and they had these two bulldogs which hung out in the office sweetest things. They literally would just sleep, like at your feet. They would find a pair of feet in the office and they go lay on them and sleep on them and they were really cute and they were fun, loved having them around. It was great for the culture.

Speaker 1: 50:08

I don't know if they asked everyone in that office if it was okay to have dogs there. You know, like I just joined and the dogs is there and I like dogs, I was excited to see it. But it's very inconsiderate not to check with everyone who the dog is going to be seeing, if they have a phobia. And also dogs smell a fear response in human beings. Like if the human is afraid, the dog becomes afraid and that can cause problems too. Just, absolutely I don't think it's a bad idea but it's something that you have to be vigilant about.

Speaker 2: 50:39

Like 100 this could go wrong so many ways because, like, also there's so many different things that could happen in office. Like you guys could get excited and be high-fiving. Each other dog might be like what the heck is happening, like I'm about to freak out and like dogs can change their behavior really quick depending on the scenario. Like you, you can't predict that it's going to be exactly like every scenario you've been in, because we're people. Like things are going to happen different situations the dog has never experienced. Like it's not fair to the dog, it's not fair to the office because it's not just in general. It's not good office behavior. Would I, if I had my own office, bring a dog in? Absolutely, but I would check with everybody that that's cool and I'd make sure they're contained in like an actual office rooms, not just roaming randomly with everybody? That's dangerous.

Speaker 1: 51:23

I mean, in this case, president of the startup. You know, like worst case scenario is that the individual who was terrified of dogs gets bit. They go to the you know the animal control, say, hey, this, there is a dog that bit me. The president has to put this dog down and continue to employ this person who has effectively had their dog killed. Like this is a zero win scenario for anybody because you can't fire them. Oh, I'm gonna fire you because my dog bit you, drew blood and then you had it put down like just don't just stay away.

Speaker 2: 51:57

This, the funniest part to me about this, is it's not like it took a dump on the floor and then you're like hey boss, uh dog, took a dump ski on the in the middle of the hall. Can you, you like, get that? It's regularly took a dump on the floor Like who cleaned that up? Is that a?

Speaker 2: 52:15

roast there for a second. You walk into the boss or the president. He's like hey, I'm on a call, be there in 30 minutes, just gotta sit there, like well your dog's feculents are literally steaming up the break room.

Speaker 1: 52:30

It's a health hazard. Maybe you should take care of this.

Speaker 2: 52:33

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm trying to wrap up for that. These are incredible.

Speaker 1: 52:38

These are incredible. Please don't stop. I know it's the Is it Me or Is it? Corporate channel, but I'm just going to say let's keep the embarrassing story train going. If you have them, join our Discord. If you're already in the discord, you know what to do. Go in there. Forward slash. Confess, I love these. I think they are great. Please I mean I love it before we drop. This is the longest podcast ever, but we have to do this. Oh boy, there is a meme. And what do you mean? Oh no, clark, this is going to be the first time we do this. This is going to be a bi-hostel meme, and what I mean by that is you're going to explain it and then I'm going to evaluate if you did it justice. And then I'm going to explain it Because, as someone who grew up with a Nintendo, I feel like you can do this, but if you can't, I'm going to step in. So the evaluation has begun.

Speaker 2: 53:27

Is this the one bourgeoisie correspondent actually wrapped up with? Okay, there, the evaluation has begun. Is this the one bourgeoisie correspondent Alex?

Speaker 1: 53:31

Reshapo posted. Okay, there was a lot, I told you.

Speaker 2: 53:33

I haven't gotten caught up, so I just went to that channel. I was way up here and I had to scroll all the way down to get to this.

Speaker 1: 53:39

My wife's on the channel now, so you can thank her for that.

Speaker 2: 53:42

Oh boy, and it's Read the Succession podcast. Okay, okay, interesting. I'm trying to get new context here, okay, so just a quick briefing. What happens in this segment is we explain GIFs and memes with our mouth parts and you can't see them unless you're in the Discord. So if you actually want to see what we're talking about, you got to get in the Discord Quick plug. This one is a classic old school Mario gaming scene and on the left is Mario. It says Clark's employee, on the right is Toad. It says their current role and I don't know what else to take on this. I mean, what?

Speaker 1: 54:24

am I missing? Hold on hold on.

Speaker 2: 54:26

It's been a long day. It might hit me, don't say it yet. Don't say it yet. Don't say yeah, I've let it cook, I'm letting it cook. I got nothing.

Speaker 1: 54:42

Oh, clark, clark, okay, you are. I do often forget because you're so much wiser than me, I forget that you're also like 20 years younger than me. Have you played this game? I have, okay. Have you beaten Bowser at all in this game? No, okay, okay. So there's where the disconnect happened.

Speaker 2: 55:05

Okay, I never made it that far because I was too young at this point to actually understand what I was doing in the game. So I played the pre-levels and just died and then quit. Yeah, it's a hard game.

Speaker 1: 55:14

I never beat Bowser. It's a hard game. I mean they're only at World 1-4. It only gets harder from there. So, clark, when you beat Bowser, at the end of each world little Mario walks up to Toad and Toad's like Mario, your princess is in another castle and like that's the bit right, Like your princess is in another castle. So you have to go to another world and beat Bowser because Bowser's moving Peach around like she's some weird investment in a foreign company. So what the meme is suggesting here is Clark's employee is Mario RE, the Succession podcast. Their job is in another department. It's a meta meme.

Speaker 2: 55:58

So good, good it's, good, it's so good, it's really good yeah, this is the disconnect. I definitely played this, but I've never gotten to Bowser.

Speaker 1: 56:08

I'm sorry. You know in your defense not just because you're young this game is one of the hardest games, Like old school Nintendo games, they just made your fingers bleed, and this one's a hard one, I think. In order to beat Bowser you basically have to jump over his flame, get the axe, take it to the bridge Like it's not easy, and you have limited lives. This is before the advent of the Konami code and getting extra lives. So you know I sympathize with you and understand this does mean that when we finally do start streaming games, I'm going to force you to play through this.

Speaker 2: 56:44

This has no help Whatsoever, I agree.

Speaker 1: 56:46

It's Pepsi man, it's Mario, that's it. That's it, that's all Only live streams.

Speaker 2: 56:53

Only two options, guys. Choose which one. Take your pick Well we've run 10 out of 10. This might.

Speaker 1: 57:04

This might be one of the most best meta memes we've ever had. I 100% agree, layers.

Speaker 1: 57:08

Love it. I 100% agree. Layers Love it. Good job, alex. We're going to have you back soon to discuss more pod topics that we've neglected to get to Listen. Y'all, it's been a long one, so all I'm going to tell you to do is get your butt in our Discord. If you're not, and if you're in our Discord, just say what up. We love the community. We love the participation. We love the memes, these mirrors, the corporates, the embarrassing stories. Join our discord by clicking on the show notes, click the link tree. Join. If you want to buy stuff, you can buy stuff on that link tree. If you want to send us money, you can send us money. But today it's all about the discord, because this topic came from the discord, the stories came from the discord and the meme came for discord. So shout out discord. We love our community. If you're not in there, get in there.

Speaker 2: 57:56

So good Like, share, subscribe. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:00

Ring the bell. Do it all. Ring the bell, do it all, do all the things. Share it with your friends. Share everything you do with your friends. If you make a bowel movement, share that with your friends too. It's all important. This is how you close deals. Pics or it didn't happen? No, no. The one thing we will not tolerate in the discord is pics of the sales bros, bowel movements, as he's closing the deal. We will not. We have a moderation team. That's a write out.

Speaker 2: 58:28

It's incredible. I get a good corporatism. Dandes, you ready? Oh perfect, hit me, all right. And then you close it out. You got this, I'm ready, I'm ready for it, all right, all right, folks, keep on evaluating your organizational maturity. Peace out.

Speaker 1: 58:43

I just threw up, I thought I was ready to end it, I was ready to end it, I was ready to end it.

Speaker 2: 58:53

How dare you, how dare you say that into a microphone Got him. I'm.

Speaker 1: 58:58

Bruce and I'm Clark and you're on mute. Thankfully You'd be vomiting too. We'll see you next week. No, I've lost the chat. I went. I went into the discord now. Oh, there it is.