Speaker 1: 0:01

bless you. Yeah, doesn't take. Oh good, I'm glad. I'm glad you accepted the blessing. I saw you sneeze just then. I wanted to make sure I got you I did not sneeze.

Speaker 2: 0:13

Don't let him tell you he opened mouth, sneezed right into the camera I actually like to put my mic right into my mouth when I have to sneeze. Just give it a sneeze right over the mic.

Speaker 1: 0:28

Boom. I like this idea. My fear is that I'm an aggressive sneezer and my sneezes are almost like bites, and if the mic is in my mouth I'm going to chomp down on Mike during sneeze.

Speaker 2: 0:37

You'll chip a tooth.

Speaker 1: 0:39

At least one, maybe two, you'll go, and I'll probably need a new microphone too, giving the ginormous chop mark that are gonna be in it.

Speaker 2: 0:49

See, I've heard you sneeze. My wife was telling me I sneezed too aggressively. She was like you sneeze too loudly, I'm like I don't know if I can like I don't know if I can tone it down if I hold it in I think I think if you hold in a sneeze you're gonna have a heart attack.

Speaker 2: 1:03

That's what I told her. I'm like if I try to hold it in, I might think if you hold it in a sneeze you're going to have a heart attack. That's what I told her. I'm like if I try to hold it in, I might die.

Speaker 1: 1:07

It's like they used to say in kindergarten If you sneeze, fart and burp at the same time, you explode and you die. I mean it's factual, I agree.

Speaker 2: 1:18

I heard it in kindergarten.

Speaker 1: 1:19

So like it has to be true, like it has to be true. My wife also told me that I sneezed too aggressively and after hearing that, my only response was sneeze with more aggressive aggression, intentionally. So now I have violent sneezes. I just I, I put my heart and soul. I mean you gotta think if, if, if you're sneezing, it's because your body wants to expel something, either in, you know, your nasal cavity or your throat or whatever. Like I mean, why not put my whole being into it? Like, if I'm going to do something, I'm going to whole ass it. I'm going to whole ass my sneezes and I'm going to get whatever's in there out of there. And uh, I do. I put my entire effort my, my soul leaves my body when I sneeze and I have to grab it and shove it back in.

Speaker 2: 2:08

Otherwise, you know, I'll be a husk like starts exiting and you're just literally grabbing it, throwing it back into your body. Yeah, I try to get a really loud tail to it, you know, like the initial sneeze, but then you just like, let it rip for a while you know, oh you, you have a lingering.

Speaker 1: 2:17

It's almost like an echo or reverb.

Speaker 2: 2:19

Yeah, you put a little reverb on the sneeze just on the end. You just got to keep it going like it's an echo I'm a cannon, I'm all about that.

Speaker 1: 2:25

Like just comes out, duck in as much as you can and then blast it. It's short, but it's gonna make you jump right like you're. You're gonna be scared when my nose decides to blow you know it's a weird thought you only get so many.

Speaker 2: 2:41

You only get so many sneezes throughout your whole entire life. Every single thing you do is a countdown until you just get no more. So you might as well make the most of it.

Speaker 1: 2:53

Now I don't like this. I don't like this at all. But you can. I mean, have you ever actually sniffed pepper? No, have you ever just taken a little thing? So I'm not the guy who's going into the restaurant, you know, grabbing the shaker. He's walking up sniffing it. Be like some good pepper in here, but like I, I once had like really fine pepper on the table and like I was, you know, putting it on my, my meal and it was just so dusty that it got in my nose and I actually started. I could not stop sneezing because the pepper. So you, I mean, yes, you're technically correct, but if you wanted to enjoy more sneezes, the pepper trick does work, especially when it's super fine.

Speaker 2: 3:34

I've never heard of someone saying this before and you never will again there's something euphoric about like you step outside and you just stare up at the sun. You know I'm talking about. All squinty eyed and you just stare up at the sun. You know what I'm talking about All squinty eyed and you're just trying to get that sneeze out and just gets it out of you Like it feels so good, feels so good.

Speaker 1: 3:52

I think the sun sneezes are great, because usually when you sneeze with the sun you get a little tear duct action too. You get a little cry. I love a good little cry because it's like, ooh, my eyes are now moist. I love a good little cry because it's like, ooh, my eyes are now moist. You know I might have to wipe away a little residue, but it's going to. You know it's going to push out some crud with it. Like, let's go, I'm just going to go stare at the sun for five minutes every day, get my sneeze on and need new eyes in less than a year.

Speaker 2: 4:21

All right. Well, that was a great episode and that's what we get to talk about sneezing today.

Speaker 1: 4:24

Hope you guys enjoyed it. Me too. I feel like we really covered some ground today. What's the etiquette? Welcome back to Corporate Strategy Podcast. Could have been an email. I'm Bruce.

Speaker 2: 4:34

I'm Clark. What's the etiquette when you do it at work? Do you sneeze Like if you're in a room with a bunch of people? Oh, absolutely sneeze like if you're in a room with a bunch of people.

Speaker 1: 4:43

Just let it rip just as loud as normal. I'm not going to suppress that. Oh yeah, I expect the blessings.

Speaker 2: 4:51

Yeah, you want them.

Speaker 1: 4:53

You got to get those when you can you want blessings? I'm scoping the room for atheists. Who's going to give me the Gesundheit? Who's going to give me the blessings? I want to know who's the atheists in here, tight, and who's going to give me the blessings? I want to know who's the atheists in here.

Speaker 2: 5:07

I need to know. I'm doing a search. This is a pro tip on how you're able to oust your co-workers and categorize them Christian, not Christian, Christian atheists. I'm really looking.

Speaker 1: 5:16

You know, I want to know. I got to suss out the religious preferences of my team members, and sometimes I fake sneeze to do it too. I really want to get to the bottom of this, like oh, members, and sometimes I fake sneeze to do it too. I really want to get to the bottom of this, like, oh, do you support old jc? Have you heard a good word? I'm gonna hand them a bible. If they don't bless me, I give them a bible that I just have in the back of my pocket, just or hanging around, you gotta get a pamphlet verses.

Speaker 2: 5:40

We've got the pamphlet for them. This is actually depending what you're looking for in a company. In the interview you should sneeze just to see if you get a bless you or not, and that is how you know whether to take the job.

Speaker 1: 5:54

Welcome to Christ Strategy, Giving you all the tips on how to get a Christian in the workplace, Because we know in this day and age you don't want to work anywhere where you don't get a Christian in the workplace, Because we know in this day and age you don't want to work anywhere where you don't get a bless you.

Speaker 2: 6:10

I am absolutely every can that I screen. Now I'm sneezing just to make sure I understand what's their religious preference.

Speaker 1: 6:16

This is a good plan? Yeah, no, this is not. And this is an HR friendly way to do it, because you know you know them, HR reps. They're always looking to get you Because they don't want you to be Christian at work. They're looking to get you. And this is how you can tell. You can test it Sneeze in front of your HR reps, see if you get a bless you.

Speaker 1: 6:32

That's how you know you can tell them the truth or not. Yeah, and this is the first time someone's ever listened to this podcast. Welcome, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna clarify anything, we just said it's 100.

Speaker 2: 6:49

Serious. This is how we actually are. This is actually exactly how we are. Every single episode. There's never any value, except for these weird, obscure tips on how to prove the religious preference of people around you or future companies you that might employ you we're called corporate and that's a ruse.

Speaker 1: 7:07

That's a ruse to fool big corporate into thinking we're providing value. This has always been Christian strategy, the religion that could have been a pamphlet.

Speaker 2: 7:18

It is kind of a pamphlet. Hey, okay, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 1: 7:21

Hey, vibe, check, clark, how you doing.

Speaker 2: 7:25

Well, I really wanted to talk about sneezing for another five minutes, but I guess we can do the vibe check. Yeah, we can do that. Biggies up Doing pretty good.

Speaker 2: 7:36

Doing pretty good. How was this week? I'm thinking, thinking through my head, how this week has been Not bad. I feel like it's been a balance of like meetings but also focus time pretty productive, I'd say. I uh, my whole entire I would say backlog of chats and emails and everything has stayed under control and even when fires have come in, you've been able to squelch them because like no, no fire, we're putting it out, we're handling it. So I feel like it's been pretty good overall what about you?

Speaker 1: 8:06

nice, I love that it's been. It's been a little chaotic something because next week's our big, big event we do every year and I'll be in san diego for that, so getting ready for that, but on the whole, I feel like we're ahead of the game, which is rare, and I'm not like yeah, I've been on meetings all day, every day, uh, with the exception of yesterday, and that's fine. I expect that for this week, and then the week after the week, when I get back from the conference, my calendar is 50% full. So I'm doing good, I'm doing just dandy.

Speaker 2: 8:46

That's awesome. Do you get well? Since you're a startup, do you get a lot of email? Is everyone at the conference?

Speaker 1: 8:55

if this is your big event, no, Only 10 special representatives are sent to really showcase who we are as a company, and I am always one of them. So yeah, I will be getting email, I will be getting asked to do things while I'm there and, in all honesty, I'm hoping this year is my opportunity to not be at the booth working all day and I can actually step away and work on some other projects, because we have good representation now. It doesn't always have to be the Bruce show, so I'm hopeful we'll do a check back in and see if that remains true.

Speaker 2: 9:34

I always think it's like the balance between some people just really like to be in the limelight of the conference. You know that really want to be up front. You know, kind of the face of your booth or whatever it is sounds like you're not that guy. You're okay. Fade into the background, be like I'm here to support I absolutely am.

Speaker 1: 9:53

Well, it's. It's weird because I've learned that being the face of a thing and being like that superstar can be a little bit of a career limiting move. You have to let other people take that limelight, take the spotlight, so you can become more strategic, and it's a. It's a hard lesson that I've learned as I now try and rip this bandaid off and do strategy and do less of the evangelism at the same time. But the problem is everyone just learns to rely on you, Like I don't have to. I don't have to pull anyone else as long as I can pull Bruce and he can do this thing. It's put myself in a bit of a pickle, but I'm going to. I'm going to unpickle myself like a body.

Speaker 1: 10:35

It's been pulled out of a bog.

Speaker 2: 10:37

I don't think you can unpickle something Like when something's pickled, it's pickled forever right, I forever right.

Speaker 1: 10:47

I'm gonna unpickle myself, squeeze the vinegar right out, right out, uh, the molecular level.

Speaker 2: 10:49

I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go in there like ant-man and I'm gonna punch every vinegar molecule I see oh, yeah, yeah, I like that that's what I do, so let me do it's a great, I'm gonna get myself out of this pickle it is interesting, like I think if you're not in the leadership ranks, the, if you're like an individual contributor, and you see someone at a booth or whatever getting all the attention, like you feel like that's the guy, that's the gal, who's like the person of the company and like they are the ones who are going to get the promotions and all the glory and everything else.

Speaker 2: 11:22

And then, as you get more senior in your career, you realize, yeah, they're not going to make it much further than this and if you really want to get up, these are the activities you need to be doing. It is really interesting because I used to think that too, like as I was growing my career, and then over time I've realized like it's not about the limelight, it's about sitting back and guiding the strategy and showing that your team is executing really, really well. That's what makes you a strong leader.

Speaker 1: 11:50

Exactly, you need to be able to do it. So, like it is important that you can be that guy because, like you still have to do press engagements, you still have to be able to get up on stage and talk and deliver presentations and all that, but like that can't be all you are. You have to show there's more to it than just being mr popular. So, uh, yeah, I'm in, I'm in the phase of unbecoming mr popular and I'm cool with it. I'm really cool with it.

Speaker 2: 12:15

Good, for you and your team sounds like they're doing. They're crushing it. People are doing great they are.

Speaker 1: 12:20

I love them. Love them to death for you. Hey, speaking of my team, I gotta I got a good topic for us today. Ooh, when do you tell the truth? When do you do it? And you already know where I'm going with this, but I'm going to give you an example so our listeners know too. Right, you've been told something by upper management. Maybe you've heard something through the grapevine and you know this is going to impact your team. When they hear it, they will hear it. The question is when and from whom? When do you, clark, step in and say you know what? I'm going to beat this to the punch. I want to be the one to tell my team this news and I'm just going to say look, you didn't hear this from me, but sneezing is no longer allowed in the workplace. It's a fireable offense, and I'd rather you hear this from me than from the big wigs up atop because they hate old JC. But that's, that's where we're at as a company. When do you do it, clark? When do you tell?

Speaker 2: 13:23

the truth. When do you implement Christian strategy and just tell the truth it's in the commandments, for goodness sakes.

Speaker 1: 13:32

Yeah, no, I think it's like in the you know, there was a verse that literally says tell the truth, bro, really do it.

Speaker 2: 13:39

Yeah, Jesus said that If you use the New International Version it's brah, but you were close.

Speaker 1: 13:49

How could I forget Much better version to pull your Jesus quotes from? How could I forget? Thank you, Clark, for bringing that You're welcome.

Speaker 2: 14:00

Oh, I'm dying. This is actually really funny. It's even funnier when you say this is really funny, so you guys are welcome.

Speaker 1: 14:08

Yeah, this is a trick. Now I know when to laugh.

Speaker 2: 14:10

Thank you, yeah, I've got to tell you just to make sure you do it. Yeah, this is a tough one because it's so contextual of, like, what is the impact? Is it layoffs? Is it you know moving? Is it calling everybody who was remote back to the office? Is it you know a new direction the company is taking? Is it you're getting acquired? Is it the company's folding? Like there's so many different things that, as a leader, you'll get looped into because you need to start, like prepping the logistics of whatever it is. And I think the most human thing is like, if you bring it down to human level, you have to prep your team for the impact that's coming and that's the right thing to do. It's not the easiest thing to do, but that's the right thing to do. Is like maybe you're not saying what's going to happen, but you're going to say it or hint at it.

Speaker 2: 15:10

And a couple of examples would be like you know, if the company's about to fold, it's like man, you're so great, like I think you could do really well elsewhere. Like starting to drop those hints, which it's tough because they can't like ask you, you can't say what's coming. Even if they ask you, it's like I don't know. But I think you should always be prepared and always be looking just to see what else is out there, because you're so great and so you kind of have to lie, but in the direction of where it's going to be better for them as a person, if that makes sense. Yeah, that's my perspective.

Speaker 1: 15:42

But it's so contextual it's hard.

Speaker 1: 15:44

It's very contextual and the tough thing for me is one you have to evaluate. If I tell my whole team this, who are they going to tell? Right, because secrets travel, news travels. The grapevine exists for a reason and it's to make wine for jesus to turn to water. And if you don't tell them, they may hear it from someone else. And then they'll come to you and say did you know this? And if you say yes, then they're like why didn't you tell me? Don't you trust? Trust me, right?

Speaker 1: 16:19

Like there is a whole, there is a whole culture game that is played with secrets and information. And I like to err on the side of who's the primary source. So if someone tells me something and they're the primary source, then I know no one else knows this unless that person has told other people. And it's probably for the best that I don't share it broadly. But if, if it is a hey, just so you know we're talking about doing X, like I know, okay, other teams know this, other people know this, it's not broadly announced.

Speaker 1: 16:54

If it impacts my team in some way, shape or form, they, they probably will hear it from someone else. So there's no harm in me telling them and like I'm doing this sort of mental math to evaluate like, okay, is it my, is my team the leaker, or can another team be the leaker? And if it's, if it's fair game, I'm just going to tell them because I'd much rather it come from me than from someone else. And that's. That's the gymnastics I go through when I do share information, because I don't ever want to be the person that's like, oh well, we can't trust Bruce. Loose lips, sink ships. But same time I don't want to be the well, we can't trust Bruce. He's a corporate bootlicker and he doesn't tell anyone anything. So I I try to straddle it.

Speaker 2: 17:37

Yeah, oh my goodness, do you feel like?

Speaker 1: 17:51

Yeah, oh, my goodness, do you feel like you feel like your team is afraid to ask you sometimes if a leak is true, share uh in in good faith that in telling them this will help them prepare for whatever the news is going to bring Right? Like I don't just do it to do like I'm not dishing a dish. I usually it's because, like, we need to start thinking about what this means for our product, for our company, for our customers, for, like, whatever it is, like there's going to be a cause and there's an effect, and like I want us thinking more about the effect and the cause, because once that news drops, everyone's so focused on the immediate reaction of it they're not able to think long-term. Like I want to be past that phase. I want to be in the solving phase, not the oh no, what do we do? Like we don't worry, we know what to do.

Speaker 2: 18:44

We've already been thinking about this.

Speaker 2: 18:45

Yeah, I think I'm pretty lucky in the organization I'm in right now that the big boss is very transparent, as much and probably more than they should be, because that's the type of culture they want to build in our big organization, and I really appreciate that because it fosters a sense of like.

Speaker 2: 19:05

Okay, I trust that they are exposing to me is probably more than I need to know or should know, just to be transparent. And so we're pretty lucky in that sense that the big boss is very, very open and honest and, you know, transparent. And there's pros and cons to being that way, because it causes a lot of swirl sometimes because, like you said, like the grapevine happens and then people start speculating and they wonder the impact. And the truth of the matter is, even the big boss doesn't have the answers. They're just letting us know to say this is going to likely happen. I don't know when, I don't know what the impacts are, but I wanted you to know so you can at least know like and be transparent. It's going to happen and we're gonna do our best to put together a plan, but we don't have all the answers. And I love that transparency because it's just it makes them feel like a human.

Speaker 2: 19:57

It makes me feel like I can just connect with the boss and be like okay, feel like a human. It makes me feel like I can just connect with the boss and be like okay, you know, I appreciate that. And like you're a human too. You don't have all the answers, so it's very like humbling to be a part of an organization like this. But I also have been on the opposite end of that spectrum, where you hear nothing, it's radio, silent, and then, like one day, packages just show up on people's desks and envelopes and it's like well, we just laid off 20% of the workforce. Today and everybody meet in a big conference room for the survivors and this is what we're doing today.

Speaker 1: 20:24

And in those moments it's like you have to think had they just given people a hint or like an inkling? Yeah, you know, just everyone should be updating their resume, kind of thing, like it's good practice, right. Like you never know what's going to happen. I'm not saying anything's going to happen, I'm just saying there's a vibe. We don't know what the next quarter is going to hold. Maybe just update your resume If you, if you have contacts out there, see what's out there. Let's say in, jump, just saying like times are rocky right now, like read, read the room, feel the weather, check the temperature. What have you Like? I feel like that's so much better than you're gone.

Speaker 1: 21:06

You're laid off, you know, and like it's like a complete and total shock to everybody. But someone did know and someone chose not to share because those things can't just happen overnight. They do take managerial and leadership uh input there's. There's discussions that input there's discussions that happen. There's trades that happen. Layoffs are a dirty, disgusting thing where you are bargaining hey, I want to keep my team. Okay, well, if you keep your team, then they have to give up somebody. Okay, well, that's how it's done, absolutely it's done. So I think a good manager would at least try and do something for their team to ensure that you know they land Okay, if they're not going to stay at the company.

Speaker 2: 21:49

Right, yeah, those, those times are so, so rocking. You have to evaluate, like to your point, what's more disruptive. You start getting people prep months ahead and then everybody's speculating oh shoot, like what is the, what's the stock? Yeah, it's just gonna, it's gonna take the priority. Like imagine you are in that dire situation as a business.

Speaker 2: 22:10

You know the next quarter could make or break you and you have to decide do I keep everyone focused so that we make it, or do I look out for all of them and say it's rocky right now and like take that as you will and just be prepared for anything that could happen? It's like you, it's all about how you position. It's like listen, as a company, like we need to pull together now and that's the only way we're going to make it through this next quarter. I think it's all about positioning and messaging. I think you can figure that out from a business standpoint to keep everybody if you communicate it properly everybody focused on the right goal. But if you have created a culture where it's not transparent layoffs have happened before and now you're asking an unmotivated team and organization to now rally behind you because this could make or break the company and you just laid off 20% of the workforce last month out of nowhere. It's like no one is going to join you on that. People are just going to be prepping.

Speaker 1: 23:10

Yep, and and this is why it's not black and white, right, like you, you receive a piece of information does not mean, well, let me go spin up a meeting and tell my team about it. Like, gotta tell them right now. It's like you can sit on this stuff. Uh, and I think you should. You should definitely sit on it. You should never just react right away If you receive something and say, well, first order of business is let me go tell Clark everything. No, like, think through, is this, is this a short term thing or a longterm thing? Like, if it's longterm, then it probably does no good to start them spinning and worrying and thinking about it If it's not going to impact them for six months, maybe three months since we have that conversation, maybe four months since we have that conversation. Maybe, if it's looking bad, like you say, okay, well, this was contingent on hitting certain KPIs or goals, we're not hitting those. I think it's time I sit down and tell my team because I care about them. It's time to have that conversation and it cannot just be a yes or no. It has to be like there's a little bit of math, planning, emotional checking that goes into this. Because on the other side, if it is just black and white, yeah, like yeah, you could tell them right away, or no, you don't ever tell them.

Speaker 1: 24:25

Your morale is tanked after that, like to your point. You tell them too early and it's like well, we're never gonna hit that goal anyway now, because everyone's worried, everyone's, everyone's so focused on themselves. They're not focused on the company anymore. It was a fool's errand. We can't hit this goal. On the other side, you don't tell them, you play by the rules of corporate and 25 of the company still gets laid off for whatever reason.

Speaker 1: 24:49

Now your team's like I don't want to stay here. Like we just busted our butts for the last six months and we didn't hit a goal we didn't know about, and now 25% of the team's gone. I'm gonna start updating my resume. I'm gonna get out of here, cause I'm gonna. I could be next Like your morale is shot forevermore and I don't know if you can even pull out of that unless leadership cycles Like that's. When you see that leadership cycle happen, people might get reinvigorated, like, okay, well, at least those maniacs are gone. I'm not going to deal with the psychopathic cuts, but it can't be one or the other. I think it definitely has to be an evaluation at all times about information sharing.

Speaker 2: 25:26

Yeah, I agree, I've got a tough one for you. Okay, the government reductions that have happened, elon Musk sending out the no, or whoever does whatever, reply back to this email by Friday, or or get cut. I mean, in one way that's transparent. It's like very honest. Hey, you can either take the package and you can leave, or you reply back to this note and show that you're staying. If you don't reply at all, like I'm assuming, you're leaving in a lot of ways that's like this.

Speaker 2: 26:00

Yeah, I know right, it just, it just popped. I had a totally different direction I was going to go and then this came my brain of like is that actually good, because it's very transparent and honest and they gave them options, or is it bad?

Speaker 1: 26:12

I mean the funny thing about all of this, and I've had this conversation with people and like I, just high, high level, okay, let's're. Like I, just high, high level, okay, let's. Before I answer your question, high level, there's so much waste and bureaucracy and red tape. We have to fix it. As American hat on. As an American like we have to fix what is broken. You cannot let broken things stay broken.

Speaker 1: 26:39

Now are the ones who are chosen to go fix it the right ones, like you know, if you had a busted water pipe in your house, do you call a plumber or do you call the local billionaire who no longer needs to work to make money to come fix your problem? Like I might go with someone who's like a little more, I don't know, close to the close to the issue itself, someone I know who like okay, you've fixed broken pipes before. I'm going to trust you to come in and fix my broken pipe. Not someone who's like well, you buy companies and make money off them. Why? Why are you the one who's coming in to fix the problem?

Speaker 1: 27:22

Now to your question. I love it because one it shows you the exact kind of leadership they are right Like. This is micromanagement. Do you want to stay working in a job even if it's for the government, where you're being micromanaged by someone who's not a plumber? Like here's a great out for you. You can. You can take your leave, get your package, go and they're forced to pay you because it's government benefits. Like this is not the worst case scenario for those people and with government experience, you can go work, you can go independent, go into the private sector and make probably twice as much money. So, yeah, it's not bad for them and it is a level of transparency that I would want, especially when I'm not dealing with a plumber. You know what I'm saying. Like. It's like, if we're going to deal with this type of personality, please be transparent so I can make an executive decision for myself.

Speaker 2: 28:15

Yeah, but I mean cause they?

Speaker 1: 28:16

could have gone a different direction.

Speaker 2: 28:18

They could have gone a different direction. They could have just said we're cutting 20%. Your manager will tell you by Friday, whether you made the cut or not.

Speaker 1: 28:26

That could have happened. And then you're just like well, what do I do?

Speaker 2: 28:28

What do I do? And you're like okay, like I guess, like I'm here and I may or may not be cut and I could also resign, and like I'm probably to do that, like that would have been worse. So I actually think the way that they did it in some positive is like at least you know, the people that said yes are willing to stay, you're getting the right people on the bus is like the positive of that.

Speaker 2: 28:49

No, because they had an out, they had like six months severance or something crazy like that. And I know someone close to me who took it and they were like yeah it was not me.

Speaker 1: 28:58

Yeah, I would take the time off.

Speaker 2: 29:01

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 29:02

I was going to leave anyway, Taking six months off of the government right now sounds like a great idea. Just pro tip if you're in the government. The cynical part of me says the reason they actually did it is because they have no frigging clue who's actually valuable freaking clue who's actually valuable. And if they just did like a 25% cut, they would probably they would somehow get rid of every single valuable employee the government has and all that would be left is the other 80% of the Pareto principle and it would just be like, well, if you thought we weren't functional before, wait till you see us now.

Speaker 1: 29:37

Like, I think the email it does two things. One, it gets rid of people who are kind of checked out, looking for a paycheck, don't want to work under this regime. So yes, it is a little bit of self-filtration. And two, the people that want to stay are going to work under this regime, good, bad or otherwise, like they're going to work and they know they're going to be under this sort of orwellian level of observation. So there is a little bit of a silver lining there, like I think. I think it could be helpful for them to stay because they kind of know what they're getting into. But right, this is all me just suspecting things without any actual insight into the situation. Uh, but it's a, it's a. It feels like a good feeling.

Speaker 2: 30:18

I, I feel like I'm I'm not wrong yeah, I like not to get political, but it just seems so relevant to this. They went about it a way that they were capable of doing, which was positive in some ways, but also probably had a lot of negativity associated with it too, which I can totally understand. So there's pros and cons. I got rapid fire ones for you. I want to hear whether you tell your team yes. So there's pros and cons. I got rapid fire ones for you, yeah, I want to hear whether you tell your team yes or you don't tell your team. Okay, you ready. No, okay, return to office Fully remote to hybrid.

Speaker 1: 30:57

Done deal, not a discussion. This is just mandate, it's mandate.

Speaker 2: 31:02

You got to move. If you have to move, I tell them right away. Yeah, I'm right away. So this comes down and they say hey Bruce, three days in the office, it's going to start in two months. Like, we don't know the logistics, we don't know if we can offer these people to move or not. Uh, but we'll tell you when. You should tell your team.

Speaker 1: 31:18

I tell them right away, because I don't know if they need to start looking at babysitters, you know, I don't know if they need to start looking for, you know, care for their family members. Like there's so much time that has been redeemed by remote work, I tell them right away, like I don't want them to be caught saying, if I'd known just a bit earlier, I could have, I could have actually made this work, right. And there's the other side. It's like there's no way this is going to work. So get your best foot forward. They're going to go anyway, right. If they're not going to come in, they're not going to come in. So get them out now, go get the. Go get a job now, versus when the the the hammer comes down. So that's an easy one.

Speaker 2: 31:52

I agree with that one Organizational change that does not directly impact your team.

Speaker 1: 31:59

No.

Speaker 2: 32:01

I don't tell them, don't let them know. You just let it happen, you find out hey, Bruce, we're changing this whole department and you guys work with them. They're not going to do what you do anymore.

Speaker 1: 32:10

Right, I mean, if it's going to impact how they work, maybe, but if it doesn't impact how they like. So you know, if it's marketing and the R and D team is the one that's getting reorg, I don't say anything. That's not my problem. Like I'm going to pretend like I don't know about it. Yeah, like it's like I don't want to worry about it. Nor should that.

Speaker 2: 32:33

Yeah, it's no direct impact. It's just water cooler talk and in those cases. I kind of do the same thing be like oh, wow like I have done that because what's? I think individuals will get caught up in those details and at the end of the day, it doesn't really impact you. So in those cases I'm like there's not a lot of points in me wasting time talking about yeah, if they said like did you know this?

Speaker 1: 32:56

I would say yes, and I did not care. Uh, so that's the way I would do.

Speaker 2: 33:00

It didn't feel like passing it along like it's like if someone asks because you probably you probably get this too like things are happening, someone will ask you. They'll come to you and be like yes you know, is this happening and like in those cases, you, you, like.

Speaker 2: 33:14

I always say like I don't know if it is exactly, but this is what I've heard, like I try to be transparent as I can, but sometimes you're not supposed to say anything. But if someone directly asked me, or they asked me if I knew, then I'll typically tell them the truth yeah, yeah, I mean, if they asked me, I would.

Speaker 1: 33:31

I would. In that scenario, I would tell them the truth and say I just didn't, I don't think it's important for us and that's why I didn't bring it up yeah, organizational change that affects team.

Speaker 2: 33:40

But I'm going to give you the context because I think, yeah, obviously, if it does directly lay off people or whatever, yeah sure, let's say you're taking on a new product line into your team, so you're going to take on something brand new with new headcount probably no, probably no.

Speaker 1: 34:01

And here's why that's an opportunity, I think, announced in the right environment, that could be really exciting and that could actually invigorate people like, oh cool, this is something they were thinking about doing, like they're going to roll it out. Everyone finds out at the same time they can share in the excitement of the new product or share ideas. Like that way, you don't have someone who knows more than someone else in the excitement of the new product, or share ideas.

Speaker 2: 34:21

Like that way, you don't have someone who knows more than someone else in the room and no one feels left out yeah, yeah, it's always interesting for this one because we recently had something like this happen, where a position was announced and no one that could be promoted into that role was notified ahead of time. It was just posted externally and that was actually seen as negative from a few of the people I talked to were like well, I wasn't aware, like I wasn't asked, it was just posted and now like I got to go like apply if I'm interested. So sometimes it can be seen as a negative.

Speaker 1: 34:55

Yeah, yeah, in that case absolutely.

Speaker 2: 35:09

If I know about a role that one of my teammates could go for, I will tell them as soon as I know for sure. Yeah, yeah, okay, I think the last one I have for you, I think this will be the last one, um, influential, like leader, like way up there CEO, senior, vice president, whatever is leaving and you know, about it. You know they're leaving. Everybody loves this person. They're kind of the voice of the company. Do you tell them?

Speaker 1: 35:36

It doesn't impact your team. Really, this one feels like the previous one with the project, where it's almost better not to so everyone can react at the same time. Yeah, because again you don't want to create that environment where it's like oh well, you know, dave always knows, let's go talk to dave because his manager tells him everything. Like let's go, like you don't want, you don't want to create, or dave's a leaky pipe and like just loves telling people stuff. Anyway, it's like if I, if I tell Dave, hey, this leader's going, then they're just gonna go tell everybody and the announcements like it's ruined right, like there is a reason. Sometimes things like this are kept close to the vest and again, like if it doesn't impact them and their productivity or their personal life, the reluctancy for me to share it goes down.

Speaker 2: 36:23

Yeah, yeah, this one's tough because it's like some people stick around for certain leaders and them leaving could be a detractor for them wanting to stay, because they're like, oh man, I really thought they were leading us in the right direction and now they're leaving. But to your point, it's like I've had situations like that come up, where people, the rumor mill starts and people will be, like, oh, did you hear this person's leaving and it's because they got snubbed or because of this?

Speaker 2: 36:49

like no man, they're just retiring, and so like I've had that come to me before and I'm just like, yeah, you know, I heard there could be some changes and I answer it very PC. But at the end of the day our leaders are going to set us up for success and we're going to find the right person to be in the role, whether it's them or someone else. I don't answer it, but I reassure them we're going to be all right, yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:10

I got one for you. All right hit me. You have learned a piece of competitive intelligence that you should not have learned about an external thing that benefits your team if you tell them, but legally you probably shouldn't.

Speaker 2: 37:29

Oh, this is so tough. Yeah, this goes back to, like you probably remember, like ethics and computer science.

Speaker 1: 37:36

Remember, I live this. I live this like a week ago.

Speaker 2: 37:41

This is like ethics and computer science Like everyone just like, oh who cares? Like it doesn't matter, it'll never happen. Like who cares? But this stuff is real and if you're like a shareholder or you're a decision maker, like you can commit things like tax fraud and copyright infringement and things like that. Like if you are privy to information and like that can be legal action that can put your butt in jail. So you really got to be careful here. It's tough. It's tough Cause like you want to take advantage of the situation. But in this case, if I know, like legally this is an issue, I don't tell my team and, to be honest with you, I probably go talk to HR and legal and be like, hey, I'm privy to information that I shouldn't be and I got it through a source that shouldn't have told me and I'm legally obligated to tell you.

Speaker 1: 38:34

Now I have literally seen people who have come back with slides like nda slides from competitors that have been left on the table after a sales discussion, just like oh yeah, we know competitor x's entire roadmap because they left their slides in the table. Printouts of the slides printouts yeah, like you should not.

Speaker 1: 39:00

It's non-disclosure, you should not not have that. But that's really valuable as a company for, like, making decisions. Um, I think, if I and I don't I don't know the legal ins and outs of this Right, and like it's important, like you can talk to your legal team about this too. Like absolutely go to your legal team and say, hey, this could really benefit us if we do a diagnostics on this. Share this with some folks. You know, maybe it's just a small share, but like I do think it's worth not just keeping it to yourself, talk to your leaders, talk to your legal, because it can benefit your company. And if the other company's so stupid as to print out slides and leave them on a table, like maybe they're asking for it, you know.

Speaker 2: 39:41

Yeah, yeah, that's like the hardest thing. It's like if if it. If somebody is so irresponsible that they do something like this. It's almost like dude. Come on, like really. I found these slides. Would, they do it to you.

Speaker 1: 39:56

Would they do it to you?

Speaker 2: 39:58

Yeah, yeah, that's always so hard. I think, like human wise and ethically and legally wise for you one go straight to hr and legal, do not incriminate other people. Yes, you cannot expose the secret until you know it's legally safe to do so, because then, like, potentially, like let's say it is something that is nda or they're like yeah, that's like a really big secret. We have to let you go, like immediately.

Speaker 2: 40:25

That could happen theoretically, and if you, what they do is they do their due diligence is illegal in HR team and they will find out who did you talk to? And you're going to have to say names. When you say names, they're going to fire those people too and put you under NDA, and so, like that is the biggest thing Get permission first, do not incriminate others, and if they say it's okay, then do it.

Speaker 1: 40:47

Yeah, this is where, if you take an ethics training as part of your corporate, just enablement pay close attention to those sections on legal ins and outs of things Because, yes, it can play in your favor, but also it can be devastating. So pay close attention to what your policies are, talk to legal, talk to your leadership. Do not just go disclosing things willy nilly.

Speaker 2: 41:15

Yeah, and like you take those, you kind of just gloss over, like that's not that important, whatever, like how do you like what if you're bribing a government official? And then like, if you really think about it, I don't know why they don't do this Like practical terms, like oh, we're at a media event and there's a business representative or there's somebody from the government representing there and I'm going to buy their dinner tonight because we're doing that for everybody. That's actually a bribe for a government official and you just legally obligated your company to whatever. You just did. Like those things, actually, even though that feels so fake and unrealistic when it actually is, like in the moment, it can legit just happen because you're not thinking about it, which is crazy.

Speaker 1: 41:54

It is crazy, and it's it's they. They put these trainings out there for a reason so like and don't divulge secrets that could get you in trouble, but do divulge all the secrets that can't get you in trouble, because those are the best ones, great yeah, the long story short use your best judgment.

Speaker 2: 42:13

If it's going to impact human lives, most likely, tell people to be like hey, you should start getting ready. You can say it without saying it if it's going to get you in. If you do say it. But also just try to be transparent as you can, even if you don't have all the answers, cause I think that is way better, even if it costs them swirl. I think that's way better than the opposite way. Like the other culture of non-transparency and everything's hidden door, it's like it'll build the wrong culture that wasn't so difficult, was it?

Speaker 1: 42:41

it was fun. Yeah, absolutely a great time. You could say it was. You know it was. It was as easy as taking it. Taking a loaf of bread and turn it into like a bajillion fish and just feeding people. That's how easy. It was. So simple, are you? Gonna feed the samples how are you gonna feed them? It's. How are you going to feed them? I'm going to turn Satan into a pig. Send him off a cliff. Hey, if you enjoyed this episode of Christian Strategy, where would you go to get more of this?

Speaker 2: 43:15

There's so many options. Just search for Christian Strategy and see what comes up on the internet. But in reality, if you want the real thing, just scroll down. You know you're listening to this on something. I would assume you probably have something in your hand right now or on your watch somewhere in your pocket. Just scroll down on the screen. Do you with me? Yep, scrolling, okay, okay, great, okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 1: 43:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:38

Yeah, okay, okay, cool, cool, cool. You're there. Okay, there's something called Linktree.

Speaker 1: 43:43

I've opened the.

Speaker 2: 43:44

Linktree, click on it. Yep, okay, you're there. Okay, great, and there's going to be a whole bunch of links in there. You can leave us a rating. Oh, you're right, you can share. You can go to show that Bruce solely pays for financially, so thank you for that. And you can also buy a baby onesie. If you just had a fresh newborn and you want to get them inundated with corporate, you can get a Christian strategy. You can definitely get them a baby onesie that may or may not say Christian on it, with an upside down cross. And you can also, most importantly, join our discord, where all the exciting conversation is happening, and you can leave us, you know, pod topics that you want us to talk about. Next, you can join in just on sharing different workplace tips. You can also play some awesome games. What do you mean? We explain visual memes into your ear holes through our mouth holes it great?

Speaker 1: 44:40

We would love to do it, but we have no memes right now.

Speaker 2: 44:42

I know it's crazy. You know what I think it's me. I think it's me Because for a while the Discord was blown up, and then I started chiming back in because I was so behind. Now it's dead. I'm the problem.

Speaker 1: 44:57

No, it's not you. You know what it is. I don't believe you. It's the Linktree. The Linktree, yeah, the Linktree. They're not clicking it. I just made the mistake. I went on my phone and I clicked the Linktree and I ended up buying like 4,000 baby onesies covered in coffee. So, like the instructions were just not clear, clark, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, linkt.

Speaker 2: 45:17

We're going to have to create a visual guide around this.

Speaker 1: 45:20

I think so, I think so and listen. I would say, like, of all the things Clark told you to do, the most important one is getting in the discord, because that's where all the action happens. So join our discord, join the conversation If you want to lurk. We have tons of lurkers, we love our lurkers, they're great. Get in there.

Speaker 2: 45:42

We share secrets in there all the time, secrets we shouldn't share Always Secrets that may or may not incriminate us.

Speaker 1: 45:47

Yeah, it was like Gandalf in that first scene of Lord of the Rings. When he's like, keep it secret, keep it safe, that's our discord.

Speaker 2: 45:57

But you won't know. You won't know, unless you get in there, what secrets we're divulging and what we're incriminating ourselves of. So get in there, and then you can find out and report us to the operating officials.

Speaker 1: 46:08

He puts the ring in Lil Frodo's hand and he's like it's quite cool and, on that note, we thank you, as always, for listening to the pod. We hope you will join our Discord. We hope you will join our discord. We hope you will enjoy the content we put out there for you. As always, love thy neighbor as thyself. I'm bruce.

Speaker 2: 46:29

I'm clark amen in pepsi.

Speaker 1: 46:32

We trust you're on mute peace.