Corporate Strategy
Corporate Strategy
165. You're Not Getting Real Training, You're Getting Pizza-Sized Oreos
Corporate training events seldom hit the mark, but through our collective experiences, we've identified what separates valuable learning from time-wasting theater. We explore the critical elements necessary to create impactful professional development experiences that respect participants' time and intelligence.
• Different perspectives from outside your organization enhance learning even when covering familiar material
• Keep sessions under two hours with adequate breaks to maintain engagement and focus
• Aim for 40% presentation and 60% hands-on activities for optimal learning retention
• Set clear objectives upfront so participants know exactly what skills they'll gain
• Make training elective when possible to respect expertise and identify engaged team members
• Include engaging activities like simulations or group projects rather than passive listening
• Ensure presenters are genuine experts who can handle challenging questions from participants
Join our Discord community for games like "Is It Me or Is It Corporate?" and "What Do You Mean?" as well as serious discussions about career development, mentorship, and professional growth.
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okay are we? Are we cool? Um well, I I said join, nothing happened then I said it again, and then something happened this is like I'm getting squirreled in all directions today I mean we're lucky, correct.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I mean he's he. Yeah, I mean he's a beaver, but yes, he's beavering us, or is he a bear? Did we decide?
Speaker 2:We've never come to a definitive conclusion on what species Craig is.
Speaker 1:Well, I was worried when you said that, that we were going to have another J'Arc moment.
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't like when J'Arc shows up. It makes me feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:It just goes from the flat smile.
Speaker 2:To the angry beaver he's got eyebrows. I don't like the fact that he's got the eyebrows.
Speaker 1:You know you have the question and this is a life question for you. If Jark always Is there and works consistently as a backup, why not just make him the primary?
Speaker 2:You don't want to know the answer to that question. No, you don't want to know the answer to that question. Jark's doing some stuff. Fair enough, jark has a history, a dark, seedy past. I mean, you don't want him recording you. You don't want to know what he's doing with those recordings. We don't just get a copy that we can upload into our podcast platform of choice. Jark's doing stuff with those recordings that make me deeply uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of scary. It's like the dark web for me. I just don't want to think about it. Yeah, it's kind of. It's kind of scary, it's like the dark web for me.
Speaker 2:I just don't want to think about it. Yeah, it's better to ignore its existence and only call it in here when Craig is not able to record it. Yeah, yeah, only when you need it, just like the dark web only when you need it. How often have you needed the dark web in your life?
Speaker 1:I'll be honest, I've never stepped over the line. Really, I was close. There was one time it was close. I went from Reddit somehow got to 4chan looking for a program I was looking for in the early aughts and I got to 4chan. I knew it was like this feels bad.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm doing something illegal.
Speaker 1:I was reading the post on there and I'm like I'm on a list for life just by visiting this website. Yes, yes, you are. I still didn't even do anything, I just was there.
Speaker 2:I just clicked the button and I saw the link and I was like, oh, have you ever like tried messing with Tor and the pedals and going down into the darkness?
Speaker 1:You know, i've've like, I've torrented things in my history, which is completely legal, by the way, depending what you're doing, yes, what you torrent is might not.
Speaker 2:Torrenting is legal, but what you torrent might not be.
Speaker 1:Yes, so I've torrented things. Legal or not legal, I'm not, not sure. It was 15 years ago, so I have no clue whether what I was doing. Who knows, who knows, and at this point it's to the wind. You know, but no, I've never. You said pedals and I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, so I mean one is not truly lived until they've dabbled in the dark web arts.
Speaker 2:I. I actually had to do it for a computer science class in college. Really, yeah, we had to go to dark web. It was part of like understanding how the internet works because you know like the dark web is basically just like it's all the unsearchable pages that the crawlers don't get to, or they're intentionally made that way. So we get there's a, there's the dark web with dark web wiki. What clark is holding up a finger? He's holding up a single finger to me, like I realized I was sitting.
Speaker 1:I realized I was sitting, I was going up anyways continue.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm gonna sit for the rest of my life, uh. So there's the dark web wiki, which you can go to once you've gotten on the dark web and you know that could take you to other pages. And I mean, like most of I can definitely see how you can get to like drugs and you know less than less than happy type uh posts. But the forum that I ended up going to part of, like the dark web wiki, which is, you you know, mostly safe stuff. It's just a bunch of like conspiracy nuts that like I have to type here because I'm too afraid of typing the Reddit because the government might hear what my thoughts are saying. Like it was like for real. This is OK. So JFK still walks among us and he's got magnet beams in his brain hole that he sends out to talk to Richard Nixon about the stolen Watergate, like that's the kind of stuff I saw and I was like this is great, this is fantastic so do you have to be pretty technical to get there?
Speaker 2:no, uh, it's. It's pretty easy now, it? It used to be a lot more difficult. You can just literally dark web for dummies. Go get firefox, download the the the tour add-on plug-in for firefox. Uh, you should be using firefox anyway. It's the best browser and you don't support google, I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 1:You lost me at firefox.
Speaker 2:I'm out how dare you? Firefox is like the last bastion of hope we have as a society and, and the sad thing is, is google pays for firefox to stay around. So google doesn't have the monopoly, which is funny. Um, because firefox is precious, it it's perfect. Don't touch it, don't let it die.
Speaker 1:You know, google has to sell Chrome, right? Yes, which is hilarious.
Speaker 2:Right, and, and the great thing about Firefox is it's not Chrome, chrome Frick. It sucks my God Like it's. It's like they're in a competition with Microsoft to see who can make the most leachy application. It's between Teams and Chrome. I don't know what's the best way to drag your computer to a crawl, like in the olden days. It's like oh, I'm going to go download Crysis or download. I'm going to go grab my four DVD set of Crysis and install it on my PC and see how slow it runs. Today it's like I'm just going to get in a Teams call. I'm install it on my pc and see how slow it runs. Today it's like I'm just gonna get in a team's call.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna see what that does like used to be the pinnacle of graphics. Now it's. I'm gonna open three tabs on google chrome. Watch it happen to my ram fam I. I got a new computer that can handle quite a bit of compute and it's crazy. You like look at your activity monitor, whatever they call it on mac and you see the amount of RAM that Chrome utilizes. It's absolutely insane.
Speaker 2:I don't understand it at all, Like I don't know. It is crazy.
Speaker 1:I agree with you, side tangent someone on my computer, someone on my computer, someone on my team I found out uses Edge, and they're probably the only person. Oh yeah, I was going to say they're probably the only person oh yeah, I was going to say you're the only person I've heard in the last five years that's used edge slash internet explore.
Speaker 2:If I had to choose between edge and Chrome, I'd choose edge, okay.
Speaker 1:Quick power rankings Chrome, firefox, duck duck go. Have you used duck duck go or no?
Speaker 2:never touched it. Okay, out of the list. Chrome, firefox, safari, edge, firefox number one, safari number two, edge Chrome. Yeah, Interesting.
Speaker 1:Wow, oh, I didn't throw Arc on there, have you?
Speaker 2:used Arc. I've not tried Arc. I don't try a lot of browsers because I've got browser supremacy with Firefox, like I don't need other browsers.
Speaker 2:I have the people's browser. There is a perfect browser out there and it's called Firefox. And the fact and someone's going to be like, well, firefox can't do X and it's because it's because it's not a Chromium browser and they can't track you and get your ad information is why Firefox can't do it. Thank God Firefox can't do it, and get your ad information is why Firefox can't do it. Thank God Firefox can't do it. Screw the apps and web-based applications that say I'm only going to work in a Chromium browser because I want to steal your information. Go pound sand. Get Firefox. Support an actual good app out there. Give them some ched. Don't support this podcast. Screw us. Go give $10 to Firefox. That's what.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you to do. I mean, I can't believe. You just said that we need that money.
Speaker 2:I donate to Firefox and Wikipedia because I strongly believe like they're just two of the best things out there and like it's people. It's people that make these things happen. It's not companies, it's people.
Speaker 1:It's people, it's people that make these things happen. It's not companies, it's people, passionate people. The Wikipedia story is awesome because it's still not non-for-profit, right Right, it's a non-profit, which is crazy that it's still non-profit. It is community managed.
Speaker 2:It's crazy. I always loved in high school, college when people would be like, oh, don't use Wikipedia, it's not an official source. It's like what makes Wikipedia any different from Joe Schmoe, who has his doctorate in Greek literature? It's like you know what? I do believe that this happened with Theseus. I'm going to write about it in this scholarly journal and post it. It's like that's your opinion, man, if someone goes online and does the same thing in Wikipedia, the only, the only difference is they don't have the educational authority to say so. But because it's managed by a community and there's community fact checking, wikipedia is probably less biased and more accurate than most scholarly journals that are are usually. You know the thought of one person. We hopefully going through like the scientific method, but still group think that mean that there's got to be something said about the group think. I don't know, I'm just. I'm a huge fan of both of these platforms yeah, fair enough, I I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to fact check what you just said, not now but at a later point, because I'm I am curious like, with all the tools now you could probably stack rank Official sources and Wikipedia and you could probably find out which is more accurate. There's got to be someone who's done that?
Speaker 2:I totally agree with you. Make sure you look at everything from the last hundred years compared to Wikipedia today. Find me one college library that's like, oh, this book's 10 years old. We're going to go burn it? No, they keep it around. So if that's your source.
Speaker 2:You go to. It's 10 years old, right Like, and you can cite that in your paper. You can cite that in whatever your research is and it's out of date. It's bad. It's no good. You get an A because you cited your sources. You're pulling your scholarly articles. Screw the education system, Burn it to the ground, Get rid of all of it.
Speaker 1:We don't need education.
Speaker 2:We have Wikipedia.
Speaker 1:This is why I want you to know. This is why you're a person that goes to the dark web. You belong there. Going back to the tangent, I'm going to go post my dark web conspiracy theory.
Speaker 2:I never told you, so you get the plugin for Firefox. It's called.
Speaker 2:Tor download the Tor plugin, what you're going to do from there. The easiest way is to look up the address. You'll do this on a regular browser. Look up the address for the dark web wiki. That will then give you the pedal, the address, the long address. That is just this nasty, ginormous gooid that you put in your Tor browser and then you can get to the dark web wiki. Welcome to the dark web. It's not so seedy, is it? Now, from the wiki you can get links that take you to other dark web places and like some of the conspiracy forums I mean, there's, there's lots of things there it's mostly garbage, like it's 99 garbage and conspiracy theory, and then it's one percent drug deals. So have fun. The FBI doesn't know how to search it and they like to be active there or no? It's the NSA.
Speaker 1:NSA.
Speaker 2:NSA yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're the ones looking on the dark web. They're the ones setting up all the different things. There's a lot of hooks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they do a lot of. Let's get the right people to meet at the right places, and we're going to be hooking you right in, and then we're going to be arresting you I would.
Speaker 2:I would argue, though, that, like, as as seedy as we think the dark web is and this is, this is, my own opinion. I have no data to back this up, but, like I would argue, any discord server could be as illicit, if not worse, because you're just. You're just grouping a bunch of sickos into a single place together, and who's going to turn them in? Right, yeah, it's like our discord.
Speaker 1:If you want to join, just click the link on link tree below.
Speaker 2:You want to see the most seediest crap you've ever seen in your life. You want to scrub your eyeballs with bleach. Join our discord.
Speaker 1:You're not going to believe what you see in there Immediately, go to what do you mean, and then you'll know. You'll know you're on the dark, you're past the dark web.
Speaker 2:This is worse than the dark web For the FBI agent who has to listen to this podcast. Please join and let us know if you're a cop.
Speaker 1:You do have to let us know if you're a cop. By the way, it's actually a requirement you join. It's a requirement. It's like, hey, you can hang out here, you can, you know, stay anonymous.
Speaker 2:Unless you're a cop, you have to tell us you're a cop. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I'm gonna start adding that to my intro. When people join hey, nice to meet you. Feel free to lurk, but if you're a cop, you have to tell us if you're a cop, just let us know.
Speaker 1:We're not going to kick you out. We just want to know. We need to, we need to make it apparent. Did I tell you I don't?
Speaker 2:I don't know where you're going, I'm scared did I tell you about when I was in my work event, uh, a few weeks ago I was working the booth and someone someone came to the booth and and this, this, I mean like he had a really nice beard, like a full kind of tactical beard. It was very well-groomed, I mean, he looked like he could rip me in half with his bare hands, but he's wearing a full suit. Good, you know, decent looking burly man. And he starts talking to me. He's like oh, tell me about your company. I'm like oh, you know, I give him the pitch, tell to me.
Speaker 2:He's like oh, let me tell me about your company. I'm like, oh, you know, I give him the pit. Tell him we're focused on security and all that. He's like oh yeah, I'm big on security too. And he leans in. He's like, uh, I'm a cop. I'm like, oh well, I'm glad you told me part of the part of the experience, but then, you know, I don't know what it is about me, uh, me and in authority, uh, which you know I have an aversion to, but they love talking to me. He ended up talking to me for 15 minutes telling me how he, when he arrests people or when he, not when he arrests, when he chases people, goes after them, detains them, he will take their phones from them, push the unlock button and then face unlock it by forcing them to look at it and then he immediately goes in and changes their password. I'm like this is this? Is this legal?
Speaker 2:I feel like that's illegal, that feels very illegal. Why are you telling me this? Uh, and then, and then he proceeded to tell me how, in a week's worth of time, he would not be able to tell me what the price of meth was, because meth is just a very fluctuant drug when it comes to its pricing. He's like, oh meth, um, what was the other one? It was, oh, fentanyl. I couldn't tell you how much it's worth because it literally the price just it's. You know it's worse than the stock market, but cocaine, cocaine hasn't changed price since the 80s. He's like I can tell you the price of cocaine right now, top of my head. I I'm like, oh, cool, cool, thank you, I'm not asking.
Speaker 1:I'm not asking, but I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Do you want to see a demo of our product? And then he's like, let me tell you, let me tell you how you get information on people. I'm like, okay, cool, cool. This is the weirdest interaction I've ever heard of. I go to protests on the weekends.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't even like have words. You were at a tech conference. Yes, Working your booth in this random cop. Was the cop working the?
Speaker 2:event, I think. So I think he was like undercover security. Which is, you know, interesting because he becomes a cop Like oh Cool.
Speaker 1:Which is, you know, interesting because it becomes a cop like oh cool I think if we look at your job title, sir, you're missing a key part of it.
Speaker 2:Undercover, not just walk up to people to hey, I'm a cop I, because of my paleness and in my, my frailness, I think I'm very, I'm very approachable and trustworthy to to those in authority, because they know they can break me and I think they also know that I'm. They look at me and they just see a snitch. They're like oh, this guy, this guy would turn in his neighbor. If he thought his neighbor was up to no good, he'd call us and turn him in. They're like little. Do you know I am an anarchist. I find all of this to be a failure. Uh, it's weird. It's weird, yeah, that is weird.
Speaker 1:That is very weird. And what a time and what a time to be alive. What conversation to get into while you're working your conference booth. I'll be honest, kind of fun if you're thinking about the rest of working at a conference. I've given the pitch like a hundred times today. Random dude comes up, give me the street prices for drugs. Sure why not.
Speaker 2:Why not? Let's go down this rabbit? I mean I talked to him for 15 minutes. I'm not going to say I didn't enjoy the conversation, like part of me was like I just need to be careful of what I say because apparently, you know, sometimes I can get, I can get a little goofy and I don't want that to come across as me being serious.
Speaker 1:So I have to button it up. Quinn, talking to people, and should have leaned in. You should have leaned in and be like have you heard of the dark web? This is going to blow your mind, man. I'm sure he has. I'm sure he has.
Speaker 2:I am sure he has, and I I really don't want to talk to him about that. I mean, like you know, I I really just wanted to. I don't want to talk to anybody, so you know, it was just uh how did we get here?
Speaker 1:How did this happen? How did we get here, did we? Do a vibe check have we done?
Speaker 2:an intro have we done an intro to the podcast. Are we live? No, let's not do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it this week, just no intro.
Speaker 1:No, I don't feel like it. Okay, I mean, I can support that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we should. Okay, let's just not, it's just not Welcome back to Corporate Strategies, a podcast. That could have been an email. I'm Bruce.
Speaker 1:And I'm Clark and I knew that was going to happen.
Speaker 2:I was waiting, I knew you knew but it was a win Win and I could have waited longer. I could have waited and to make him really think like, is he going to not do it? Is that really going to happen?
Speaker 1:Oh, how long was that? 19 minutes ago. Good, I'm gonna make a note of that. We've been here for that long and we're just doing a new record.
Speaker 2:New record 19 calling the pod through the roof. 20 minutes of nonsense.
Speaker 1:Intro our podcast is turned. Our podcast is turned into a sandwich of nonsense for each side and then some valuable content in between, but it's getting smaller and smaller every time, because the intro gets more and more nonsense every time. The outro gets more and more nonsense every time.
Speaker 2:In the middle is just there, it's really, it's really become an Oreo, because it used to be an ice cream sandwich, right, like? You get a little bit of goof at the beginning and a little bit of goof at the end, a whole lot of cream in the middle. Now let's just straight up Oreo there's 66% goof and then there's the creamy goodness. That's a 33%. Sorry.
Speaker 1:Sorry about it. Maybe I'd say more of a Reese's or an M&M. It's like the value is just surrounded by this core and you don't know when you're going to get to that core. You know you're just going to keep chomping away, hoping like maybe there's something good in here, and you're going to be scrubbing a little bit fast forwarding, hoping you find it, and somehow you get to the other side and you missed it. You just swallowed the good stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm just not. I'm having a lot of trouble visualizing you eating an M and M, Like I thought you just put them in your mouth. I thought that was the way you eat an M and M oh, little colorful piece of candy on tongue, Chomp, chomp, swallow. Mission accomplished. But you're making it sound like it's a lot more work. And now I want to see you eat an M and M.
Speaker 1:All right, listen. Okay, M&M was a bad choice.
Speaker 2:I think Reese's is a better descriptor of how this podcast has become Fun size, regular size, king size, mega size.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't know they came with a mega, don't they have like a half pound one? That's just huge, oh do they?
Speaker 2:I think they do. It's massive, that's dangerous. I would love to just take a bite of that, because think how much peanut you're getting.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what I'm saying is like, just like our podcast, you're going to bite into it and you might just get all chocolate. And so you're like, okay, I'm going to like scrub a little bit, I'm going to like flip this thing around and try to bite into it from this angle all chocolate. And then you're going to see, like I'm just going to go to the complete opposite side. There's got to be peanut butter in here somewhere. All chocolate. Only do you realize you got to get through the chocolate to get to the peanut butter again I ask like, what kind of reese's are you eating?
Speaker 2:I, I see my hands by all of your candy analogy. Yeah, okay, okay, mega sucks. I'm talking. Clark is doing a handshape that looks like he could be holding a medium-sized turtle, so I'm imagining a turtle-sized Reese's. But even still, like the percentage of chocolate the peanut. The percentage of chocolate the peanut is not so significant that if I took a big honking bite of that thing, of that turtle, I wouldn't be getting some juicy peanut Okay, so maybe that does accurately describe this podcast then I think we're 22 minutes in our podcast is officially become a uh, it's.
Speaker 2:It's a beaver sized oreo. Is what it is. I mean it is. It is huge. Your, your hands have to be more than shoulder width apart. You're holding on to this beaver sized oreo. You take a bite. I just got cookie. No, where's the cream? Pizza sized Oreo, that's it. Beaver size Beaver's, not a good size because there's various kinds of beaver. Yeah, Pizza sized Oreo. I mean that's a lot of cookie before you get to the cream.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I agree. Well, and you don't know when you're going to get there. Like you think you can just scrub to like end or the middle, and you think you're going to get there. But sometimes we do the intro 22 minutes in and then you're like, okay, is there any actual content in this, or are they just rambling to each other for 30 minutes? That's what you don't know. It could hit you right in the beginning, it could hit you right at the end. You don't know what you're getting yourself into.
Speaker 2:You really don't.
Speaker 1:I still don't. To be quite honest, we're running the show. You know our episodes over time have gotten longer and longer. Sure, I would think like value would also increase, but I think actually the value has always stayed the same and now they're just more just more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. It's kind of like when they used to have those bags of chips, they'd be be like now with 20% more bag. And you're like, wait a second, you didn't say chip, you said bag. And it's like the bag is bigger, there's more air in the bag. Same amount of chip was always there. And you look it's like, oh, the old bag had 22 ounces of chip. New bag, which is way more wasteful in the plastic, still has 22 ounces of chip. New bag, which is way more wasteful than the plastic, still has 22 ounces of chip. Yeah, we are the chip bag of podcasts.
Speaker 1:That's who we are. Yes, well, it's good to be here. I'm glad you guys keep on listening to us. Thanks for having me, clark. Yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 2:All right, we'll see you guys next week. All right, Bye.
Speaker 1:Well, we didn't vibe check. At this point, I think we should just skip it. No one cares.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same, I have a topic for you. Hey, what is it? It's going to be one that I think lines up well with you and with me, for multiple reasons, and with everybody listening Whoa, it's going to blow your mind, be careful. It actually was inspired a little bit off of something I saw on LinkedIn from our friend, alex Reschrepo. He posted about an event he went to, like a training, and he was like pumped about how awesome it was. He was talking about the importance of human connection, how great the presenters were, and it got me thinking about like how many trainings have I been to that I've like walked away and been like I'm fired up, I learned, I connected with people. It was really really great, and the answer was not many. Like there's like one or two in my long corporate career where I'm like, yeah, that was productive, that was a good use of time. I feel like that was awesome and I thought it might be good to talk about. Well, what makes up a good training?
Speaker 2:What makes up a good physical event period.
Speaker 1:Could be that we could go that far if you'd like.
Speaker 2:I mean let's start with training. But I think we can Because, in all honesty, the event I went to tremendous waste of time.
Speaker 1:And it hasn't always been.
Speaker 2:So you know it is interesting, right? And I think the two are a little closer linked than you might think. So let's start with a good training. Start with a good training. Firstly, we're assuming physical right. I would say yes, I would say we're not doing a zoom training yeah, like teams and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get a lot of trainings happen there. Let's be honest, like 75 of people aren't really paying attention during zoom and teams trainings and whatever. So I think we talk like you're physically going to a place to have a training of some sort. It could be for learning, certification, kind of like a team town hall quarterly business review, whatever you want to call it. You okay bundling those together.
Speaker 2:Let's bundle, let's bundle. Yeah, let's get a discount, yeah, why not? I'm on safe Step one. It needs to be a different perspective than the one I have, to be a different perspective than the one I have. You can say something I already know, but from a different perspective, and immediately I'm leaning in, doing the finger on the upper lip. I'm like, oh okay, interesting, I have not considered this and that's important. If the person giving the training is someone you know or they're like someone who works with you, chances are they're going to be very similar to the way you think they're probably drinking the same Kool-Aid you drink. You're immediately going to kind of boredom check out, because I already know this, I've already heard this. But when you bring someone in who has a different perspective, you're already kind of off kilter because they're they're challenging your worldview, even if they're saying essentially the same thing that you've heard before.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I've never actually thought about that. So you're saying like as a kickoff towards whatever, whatever the topic is, if you just say what everybody already knows, you're, you just lose everybody, right there, right.
Speaker 2:Just gone, just done. I'll give you. I'll give you an example, right, um, let's. Let's say you're at a training. It's going to teach you how to better network with your customers. If the person getting up teaching the training is your head of sales, chances are they've been trained and have been exposed to all of your marketing and your enablement and most of the things that you have already been through because you're part of the same company, been through because you're part of the same company. If you bring in someone who is a customer who has not gone through your training, your rigmarole, they do like your Kool-Aid, they drink it, they like what you're selling. But the customer's like here's why I like your network or here's how I do this thing. Suddenly you're hearing the same thing, but you're hearing it in a very different way. They have a totally different perspective than what you've heard a thousand times before, which I think just makes that a lot more interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I actually, I really like that. I think when you are hosting an event or something for people that are familiar with you, if you're the one kind of leading it, bringing someone, like you said, a customer or like someone interesting ones yeah, partner, it could be a partner for your company, it could be maybe even someone like famous to talk about, like how they're kind of related to this or why they're interested, or just like a fireside chat of you know, whatever the topic is for that training. I think that immediately grabs someone's attention to be like I'm going to hear something I haven't heard before from either someone else that's talking about it or a different perspective. I like that.
Speaker 2:I will say and I just caution on this because I've worked with it when you bring in someone famous, there is always the chance that they have no idea what they're talking about, and it can have the opposite effect, where it's like, oh you're, you're cool, but this was not helpful. Yeah, so consider that if you're on the setup side of things. But yes, I do agree. I think any outsider that's not a member of your direct org even better, a member of your company but has expertise in this thing is always going to be better at training than someone local.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that. So, step one, change the narrative that is not going to be mundane to everyone else either by having a different perspective. Yeah, new perspective, I like that. That's great. Step two. Step two Like what is another, and I don't even know if it's steps or if it's just like pillars or things to consider. I don't think these are prioritized at all because they're coming off.
Speaker 2:Keep it under two hours and have breaks. Yeah, hugely important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, One I agree.
Speaker 2:We're a generation of folks that can't go five minutes without checking our phones. Like, if it's an eight hour training, four hours up front, you get a 30 minute lunch with the crappiest sandwich you ever had in your life and then we're back in it. All you're going to do is make everyone hate you everyone in the room, the trainer, the person who set this up. It's going to be a hate fest and your morale is going to be worse afterwards and you're not going to take anything away. But if it's like hey, this is a two-hour course, we're going to meet up in person. It's two hours, we're going to do an hour, we're going to do a 30-minute break in the middle and then afterwards we're going to go do top golf and then tomorrow we'll do another two hours kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Like, splitting things up allows one for you to digest to. It allows you to have conversations with people afterwards, which is really where the training sets in. It's like hey, did you know about this? Like that's, that was really helpful. Putting, putting in those breaks and having the opportunity to talk and share Makes it so much more interesting and it'll it'll sink in better than word vomit.
Speaker 1:I agree. I think that's like maybe what you're saying too is only make it as long as it's actually needed. There's a law called and we've mentioned on this here before Parkinson's law. I just looked it up, just double check. I was talking about the right one.
Speaker 1:But it's time will essentially fill, or the activity will fill the time that's actually allowed, and so if you schedule something for four hours, whatever you're trying to do will be four hours. That's basically what the law is saying. So it's like if you condense it, it could actually be two, because you put the constraints of time and you've got to figure out how am I going to get this done in two hours? So shortening time is actually a really good thing, not only because of our mental capacity, but also because I think your activities actually could be a lot shorter, and eight hours is just unnecessary. And you know what happens. The second they get into a four hour meeting, what comes out on the tables, the laptops, everyone's like, yep, that's like half my day. You expect me not to be looking at email and my Slack channels and all that. Like yeah, I'm going to immediately go to that to try and be productive.
Speaker 2:I agree if, if the viewer feels like they might miss something, because this is, this is a condensed course. Usually I do this in four hours. Today we're doing it in two. It's like, oh well, I don't want to move.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're gonna move through this. This is gonna be a breakneck speed. I better not look at my laptop or phone right like there is a little bit of mental manipulation that can occur there. But I think also it's just attention spans are not what they used to be. You have to be considerate of that and people's time in general, and it needs to be the meat, all meat.
Speaker 1:No reese's chocolate exactly not like this podcast at all yeah, yeah, it needs to be all peanut, no you mentioned something as like a sub part of what you just said, but I actually think it's like a totally different pillar or whatever we're calling these add in activity. I think activities are so important to like. You know, either get everybody out of their seat, like doing I kind of hate the icebreaker crap. You know that you typically do. It's like go talk and write down three people's names and like what their favorite color is and like that's stupid. But if you add something cool, like hey, we're trying to get to Topgolf, we got two hours but then we got to leave. We got our appointment at Topgolf, like we're all aiming to that and after you know, we're going to all just hang out, eat food, hang out together, do an activity that's fun. So either something you're like bookending or starting with, or something that's actually engaged in, like the topic itself.
Speaker 1:So I remember you and I we did a big like agile transformation from Waterfall and we went off site. It was definitely longer than it needed to be, but it was like two or three days in like a hotel setting and where we were drinking Kool-Aid about agile and doing it together. But the one thing I loved is they forced us to do activities around like okay, let's like pretend we're building something, let's make up something, let's build it together. We're going to do the whole agile process. We're going to sprint plan. We're going to basically break everything down into stories together. We're going to see what challenges come up and then at the afternoon session we're going to do like a retrospective to talk about like how that sprint went. And so we literally just made an activity where we formed into scrum teams and we did it, which I thought was actually really, really cool, because it kind of made us work together and it got us out of our seat and not just listening to words, but actually getting into whatever we were trying to do.
Speaker 2:I think if you have a healthy ratio of 40% talking to 60% activity, you're doing it right. You know, like, then you can. Then you can get a full eight hour day of training, because I only have to sit and listen for 40% of the day. I know that the other 60% is going to be spent doing, and it's important because doing is how you learn right. Listening is great. Yeah, you can take some notes, you can. Oh, that's a good tip, I'll try that out someday. But actually going through the practice and doing the thing this happens a lot with technical trainings right, you'll have the instructor go through some slides show you. This is how you set up our fancy schmancy widget. Now let's go into your lab and do it yourself. The lab needs to be longer than the discussion and there needs to be room for conversation. And hey, I'm having trouble with this. What's going on? Like, okay, let's talk about it in the room. Like it needs to be interactive, otherwise the learning is not happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, it is interesting, like when you think back to like high school depending on what, what classes you took or even college. Like I took auto shop and a huge part of it was just being in the shop doing the things that we're learning, so literally. And what I loved about it is cause like they're pretty blue collar guys who were teaching us but they'd like take us in the room and be like hey, there's like 30 pages on this crap. We're going to spend like five minutes. I'm just going to tell you the bullet points and show you some pictures. Then we're going to go out there and we're actually going to do it for the next two hours and you're going to learn how to do it hands on and like that principle, like some of the things that captures. You know the overall theory, how you do it, why you do it, but then go actually do it.
Speaker 2:I can't remember if I mentioned this on our previous episode. We talked about our education experience. But one of the things I loved about going to Hogwarts Wizarding School for whites is 60% of your grade was participation. Like you, you had to show up to class. If you missed three classes, you failed. And when you showed up to class, 60% of your final grade. Your teacher every day would like put down.
Speaker 2:This is how much Bruce participated in class today and, like you, could pass a class and never pass a test because you participated. But participation was basically I am participating in discussion, I am offering up opinions, I'm asking questions, I'm invested, like they're checking to make sure the material. You're not just reading the material, you're not just able to regurgitate what you read 20 minutes before class in your cram sesh. It's you're able to have a discussion with teacher and your fellow classmates about the thing. And I do attribute a lot of that to why I've learned as much as I did in college, despite hating academia and that whole system, because I knew if I participated I get a good grade. But it didn't work right Like, yeah, I passed and I never did homework and it's mostly because I was able to listen and participate and have those conversations in the classroom setting.
Speaker 1:That's pretty cool. Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, I think doing that the activity is so important. I'm good on that one. I have another phase.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, upfront, you should outline like the objectives and I think what I hate about and it kind of goes between these two but what I hate about the all the certifications and crap like that, for, like certified scrum, product owner, master, whatever it's like okay, all you did was learn theory for two hours when in reality, a lot of it's just you need to get in there and like work with teams and what's more impressive is actually like building things successfully with other people. Don't really care how you got there, but it's way more impressive to see that than you've got 20 certifications, because that just means you attended something and you got a certification. That's not very impressive, but actually doing the thing with an activity is much more impressive. And I think the you know the phase of like objectives is like start off with saying hey, when you leave this.
Speaker 1:Think the you know the phase of like objectives is like start off with saying hey, when you leave this. This is what you should know. You should be able to do this when you leave this training or whatever. It's like you know. Let's say, you're setting up like a hypervisor for your company or whatever. So it's like you should be able to set up VMware and be able to configure servers and do all this stuff. It's like you should be able to do this once you leave this event. That's what success looks like, and so being upfront at the very beginning, to say this is what you're going to leave and know how to do, I think is super important.
Speaker 2:I like that too, because they've actually said that humans are a little bit predisposed to liking spoilers. If a movie gets spoiled for you, you're far more likely to enjoy it than if it isn't, which is weird. Yeah, they did. They did a whole study on that. I personally love surprises, so I don't understand, but the research shows people like knowing what's going to happen, so just going off that alone, I think you're right Setting an agenda, setting an outcome, specifically saying, if you go through this and you do the activities and you participate, you will be able to sell this product.
Speaker 2:You'll be able to do this technical thing. Like I like that because it starts with a, a winner's mindset, right. And like you're basically saying like everyone in this room is capable of doing this thing, we're going to get you all there today. Like it is a positive note room is capable of doing this thing, we're going to get you all there today. Like it is a positive note and I think it just it sets the brain in motion to to achieve something. Versus today we're going to learn about computers like, oh, I knew that, but I guess we're starting there.
Speaker 2:Huh, yeah, Versus today when you leave this course, you're going to be able to code your own game that you can sell for millions of dollars. Like you know, it's just like setting the expectation. That's huge. I love that, clark Good thinking yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's one of the most important things.
Speaker 2:And yeah, start with the book.
Speaker 1:It's starting. It's beginning with, like, the end in mind, if that makes sense of like setting those clear expectations. And I can't remember where I got this from, but it's like reverse pyramid style. It's like, rather than like, tell the story to get to the thing, like you said, it's like tell them the ending and then get to the ending by the context that everybody can see. The vision of this is where we're heading. This is what I'm going to be able to do, and then you can like go through the steps to actually do the thing, rather than getting all the way to the end, and then big reveal you know how to code games. It's like wait, I was trying to do that the whole time. I didn't even know.
Speaker 2:And you know what else it. Also, when you set expectations like that and you give them a very clear you will be able to do X by the end of this thing, you don't get disappointment, I mean, unless you don't do the thing. But you could say, today we're going to learn about computers and then all you learn is how to check your email in Google Chrome and you walk away from that course Like I didn't learn a damn thing about computers. I learned that this, this instructor likes a really crappy browser and only knows how to check his email. And like you don't have a bad experience.
Speaker 2:Versus if they said that from the onset, we're like they didn't lie. They did say we were going to learn how to check our email on Google Chrome. Like having the expectation meet the reality. I think that's very important from a satisfaction perspective, Cause even if I didn't particularly learn anything in the course, I can't give them a bad review because they told me what I was going to get out of it, Right, Like did this course meet your expectation? Well, yeah, they said they were going to teach me this. They taught me that. So yeah, it's good. But if it's misleading, you done messed up.
Speaker 1:I also like the um and maybe these go together is set the expectation for who should be there. Yeah, Like hey. This, this course is built for people who are gonna what like daughter shop thing it's like, who are going to have to get hands on. You're going to have to get dirty, you're going to have to change some oil. If you don't want to do that, don't stick around like. This is what this course is going to be. That I.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad you brought that up, Clark. That is one of my biggest beefs in trainings is the mandatory everyone must attend training. It's like I already know this inside. I passed the test last year. Why am I doing this again? Like what's the point? Well, it's mandatory, Everyone has to do it. Like that's a problem.
Speaker 2:If everyone has to do it, then everyone's wasting their time, because I'm guaranteeing I'm not the only person here that knows this and I think that puts people in a real bad mood too. And it also tells me that you are not capable or caring enough to say I value and respect the time and money we spend on all of our employees to say, hey, if they passed this last year, they should not need to re-enroll and do it again. Like we value them more than that versus all right, everyone gets to go through this mandatory training. That if you didn't have to sit through an hour long video, you could just mindlessly click through the test and pass, Cause you know at the back of your hand, One is insulting and hurts morale. The other basically says, yeah, you don't have to do this, you already passed. Like oh, you respect my time, you care about me? Wow, Thank you.
Speaker 1:Appreciate that. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2:I agree If you make it an elective, then you can actually see who cares about your company.
Speaker 1:That's true. See who shows up? Yeah, some of those things are just a test of like, who's actually going to be interested? Who cares? Yeah, who actually cares? I like that. How do you, how do you get people who are not going to contribute out? Like, that's what I'm trying to get to a little bit too. Is you? You know, you've been part of like groups that you're like, oh crap, like this person kind of sucks. They're not even paying attention to the activity. I'm gonna have to do the majority of the group project here. Like that is like the worst thing for a training when you get stuck with the group that you're like, oh man, these people suck you know, it's even worse than that having me in your training, because this is, this is a true story from a few months ago.
Speaker 2:If you invite me to your training and I am the expert and turns out you are not, I'm going to make you look bad in front of everybody and you're going to end your training 30 minutes early because you invited Bruce and this happens and I'm like well, I was forced to be here, so thanks for this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Are you?
Speaker 2:talking about like the host Didn't know oh that's rough, yeah, and because not good expectations were set. It wasn't done the right way, it was very much a. Not good expectations were set, it wasn't done the right way, it was very much a. Bruce is going to have to step in and ask some hard questions here, because Bruce doesn't know why he's been here for for the period of time he has, and the training ended up ending early because Bruce derailed the whole thing. Uh so so it's a thing you gotta be careful and be careful who you invite to right. Like I am, I am very anti-authoritarian as, as made as made known multiple times on this podcast, I don't like authority.
Speaker 2:I'm anti-academia. The way I like to learn is by being hands-on. I want to actually go and do the thing. Give me, give me a guide. You can give me an instructor if I respect them and and let me go try the thing. But do not stick me in a chair and force me in front of a screen for eight hours and say, hey, you're going to learn this. It's like I already know this.
Speaker 2:So what are we doing here? Like that, I'm not alone. Like I'm not a I'm not a one-off force of nature. There are lots of people like me out there. I would I would actually say Alex Estrepo is also one of these people very smart, much smarter than I am, and can derail a training if you want it to, because he knows things. And it's disrespectful for the organization to basically say this person needs to be forced through this activity, even though they could teach the course if they want to. So, like you, gotta be careful, because there are there are people like us who will say, well, if I'm being forced to do this, then I'm also going to mess this thing up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah. And then you I think you mentioned this on a previous episode, but I love it it's like in a meeting I think that that was our context for the last time Like if you're in a meeting, like who's going to throw a wrench in everything, or like call things out and like that's the type of you will get those people, and the presenter has a couple options. It's like either they take that head on and like try to wrangle it and if they're really competent, they probably will and be like wait, no, but you're thinking about this wrong, think about it this way. And when they do that, it's like okay, now they're proving to you like no, we're about to look at it from a different angle, so hold on a second, we're going to get there. And that's kind of like setting you back to be like don't worry, bruce, we're going to get there, but I need you to think differently than you're thinking now. And that's going to try to get him out of this, or I'm going to end it early.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's exactly what I wanted. I wanted it Like. It was like being slightly facetious Always I am a facetious person. But what I have loved a real answer to the questions I was asking and like the examples I was bringing up. I would have loved that because then it would have proven, like one I don't know everything to put me in my place, know everything and you put me in my place. Like I don't mind being put in my place, I can be taught, I can learn. And two, it's saying well, now I know how to do this. Like thank you, you've helped me, you've trained me. Like what a great experience. But it's that. Right back to point one. This is why you have to bring in outside perspectives who are experts in the thing, because if you're just, if you're saying, hey, your peer is teaching this training, it's like my peer doesn't know as much as I do. This is going to be a problem, like it's not going to go well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a hundred percent agree, I love it. Any other tips? No, like thinking about, like all the things we just talked about.
Speaker 1:It's like yeah bring a change of perspective, set objectives and expectations for like what's going to be. You know the outcome. What are you going to walk away with? What are the actual, like hands-on, physical things we're going to do? Tell people, hey, you should be here If you want to do these things. If you don't get out, include an activity where it's like theoretical stuff, talking stuff like that. Like 40% the 60% should actually be the learning and doing and then really shorten that time to only what's needed and include those activities. And when you do that, I think you have a super productive session that is going to be valuable to everyone and everyone's going to walk away being like that was awesome, like I'm ready, I know this thing, I can do this thing, whatever the objective was.
Speaker 2:Remember how I said, this is not just applicable to training. Yeah, literally all of those things is true for any physical event. Yeah, does not matter what it is. And I like, as someone who, like, is involved with setting up and managing physical events, you have to do that, you have to be considerate of all of those things. Otherwise, you're just going to upset your attendees and they're gonna think, well, this is a waste of time, I'm not gonna do this next year and you're you're not gonna continue to do those kind of events long term, because no one's gonna want to come do them absolutely.
Speaker 1:the last one that I always hear is like they ask for feedback on the sessions, oof and and I'll be honest, another mistake. That's a huge mistake. Every single time, it's never been productive, and sometimes they'll even show it on the screen after They'll be like this is what people are voting.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, and then it's just embarrassing.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh God, 60% of the people did not find this productive. That was pointless to show on the screen after.
Speaker 2:That's really when you don't want me in the room because it's going to be very. You're going to have one person who scores just like. Oh wow, usually people don't select strongly, disagree for everything. Who did this? Me? That was me. I'll tell you why that was me and because you asked, let me run you through all of my thoughts yeah yeah, it's, it's just not good.
Speaker 2:Don't do that. If if you want feedback, firstly, be prepared to be upset and secondly, don't make it public afterwards everyone did a great job, everyone had good things to say, even if it's not true, and move on. Uh, yeah, completely agree yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:This is a fun one. I know you had no idea this was going to come in, but I saw it and I was thinking about earlier and I was thinking back to like, yeah, what are the productive ones that I've had? I've even hosted some where I definitely think I could have done better and I think I've like done a decent job like constraining it, including activity, but I don't think I did a great job on like what success looks like and what the objective at the end is to be able to do, and so I think I can take a lot of these learnings, too for the next in-person type of thing that I do, which I will be doing one in about a month for my team.
Speaker 2:I do a lot of trainings, a lot of presentations, and my goal is always get in, get out as quickly as humanly possible and try and engage the audience when I can. I consider it a personal failure if no one asks a question or if no one participates with my activities. Like that is just like Bruce, you failed, you failed and in many times it's because the people suck, but it's also because I failed. So two things can be true at the same time.
Speaker 1:This one, I think, comes naturally for you and for me, but I don't, and maybe it underlies all this is like the engagement factor, like don't just state a fact. Like if you're telling people about your team like, let's say, like product management, I could very much just say like your team. Like, let's say, like product management, I could very much just say like, hey, product management is a growing industry. This is why it's important X, y and Z. Instead, I'd like to ask, like a provocative question that forces engagement Raise your hand if you've ever dealt with a crappy product manager.
Speaker 1:Don't you dare raise your hand. I'm looking at you. His hand is high in the air, as high as it would go. Like that forces engagement right. To be like okay, like, tell me like what you think are the qualities of a good product manager. And like, even if you say, hey, tell me a horror story working with product manager, like that is going to get people engaged. And be like this is awesome, like we're just riffing now and then you can kind of get everybody's attention to get hooked on the topic ahead.
Speaker 2:The best part about that, too, as an instructor, is you're doing less work. Yeah, put it on them. You're literally letting the class teach the class, which is great If you can get that to happen.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I love it, when um everything I do.
Speaker 2:I do a session every month for our new hires. It's called the History of Data Protection. It's 30 minutes. I try to make it fun. I try to put some jokes in the slides, but I love it when I have people in the class that know more than me, because that's where I learn and that actually improves my sessions. I'll bring up things people have brought up in the past and that's always good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. I love it. I think we crushed it.
Speaker 2:See, there's the peanut butter.
Speaker 1:The peanut butter tastes so good when you find it.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's so good. I do want a pizza-sized Reese's cup. Same Dude. They're so good, they're so good I want one right now. Have you ever had the? They make the jar of the actual peanut. They call it peanut butter. But it's not that. Let's be real, oh you're talking about like the Nutella but the jar of like the spreadable? Yeah, they have, like the jar of the Reese's peanut, but it's not, it's not.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, like I want a jar of whatever that center gunk is, I just want a spoon right in my mouth.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying, okay, so this is maybe the next live stream we have to do. We have to find the mega, biggest Reese's cup we can find and then what we also have to do is we have to scrape the peanut butter out of Reese's Somehow separate the chocolate from the peanut butter and then we got to melt it down and do a taste test side by side and you tell which one was encased in chocolate and which one just came out of the jar.
Speaker 2:I like this activity. Do you remember back in the good old days, the golden age of Big Corp, when we used to do like food-based activities? Like, were you there when we shook the box of panda cookies and it turned into a ball? Yes, yes, you know what I'm talking about. You know what I'm talking about wait.
Speaker 1:How did we shake it though, because I remember it came out.
Speaker 2:I have a video. I have a video of it actually why I why I asked if you were there? Because you were there.
Speaker 1:Well, I think either I was, I remember you did one, I think before I joined, and I did not participate in that one, but then we did another one. After that we were like hey, we should do this again, and I think I was there for that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's so much fun For those who want to play along and do science at home, you can. There are they're Japanese cookies in the Japanese that they're in the shape of a koala bear, and the center of the koala bear is chocolate goodness, chocolate filling, and the tube they come in is hexagonal six sides. Yeah, I think so. If you take one of those things and shake it like a shake weight for about four hours, what you will have is a ball of chocolate cookie crunch. It's a perfect sphere. It's amazing that it happens. You just got to shake it like a shake weight. So, clark, myself and let's just make up a name Someone we'll just call them Shen Yu-san, and let's just make up a name Someone we'll just call them Shen Yu-san shook this thing for four hours at work, taking turns, but what we got was the perfect sphere of cookie goodness Super cool.
Speaker 2:I don't think we ate it because it looked disgusting. I think we might have tried it. I think I tried it. Well, good for you. I didn't Because I have taste.
Speaker 1:I'll try anything. Why not At least one?
Speaker 2:time, absolutely, let's do it. Let's get that peanut.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm really curious if you'd be able to taste the difference. Taste the rainbow. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed a taste of our peanut butter On today's episode.
Speaker 2:I don't like that One bit. If you do, if you did like that, you can help us out. By joining our discord when we do things like play games, like is it me or is it corporate? You can go in and anonymously confess you do forward slash, confess in that channel, say hey, uh, there's a guy in our office. It likes to stick their mouth directly on the water cooler, spout this is me or is it corporate? And we'll say I don't, that's neither of you. That's gotta get rid of that guy.
Speaker 2:Go in there, tell us your anonymous confessions. We want to hear all about them. We also play what do you mean? A game where we describe memes of things memed in the previous episode with our mouth parts. It's a good place and for serious, we've got lots of good conversations about mentorship, jobs, events, how to improve yourself, marketing yourself, everything going on in that discord. It is our community, it's our corporate fam. We love the conversations happen there. Get in there, even if you want to lurk. We will only ask if you're a cop. That's the only thing that you got, cause you have to tell us if you are, it's, it's only legal.
Speaker 1:You know. It's fair to us to know you have to. You know self-identified.
Speaker 2:So that we understand who's in our discord.
Speaker 1:I just need to know, because otherwise I'll be giving you links to the dark web. So and we?
Speaker 2:will flag you also.
Speaker 1:You know as cop, so that way no matter who, you get a little cop flare. That's that way.
Speaker 2:Everybody knows you're a cop they give me snitch flare, so I have to give them cop flare, you know and then we have one channel that says not for cops, and that is the one you're not allowed in.
Speaker 2:So just get ready to for that we're like hey, you're breaking the law, this is not for cops. What are you doing here? Don't look here. Share the pod, love the pod, give us a review on the pod. If you feel like helping us out financially, you can buy us a coffee. You don't actually buy us a coffee, you're just supporting the pod monetarily. We'd appreciate that. All of these things you can do by opening up your podcast player of choice. Looking at the show notes, the bottom is a little link tree All the links. Click on it, check it out, explore it.
Speaker 1:Enjoy it. I think you did it no. You did it no.
Speaker 2:You. No, we did it and that'll do it for our show. Remember, get that peanut. Until then. I'm Bruce and I'm Clark and you're on mute. See you next, peanut.
