Corporate Strategy
Corporate Strategy
167. How to Have Uncomfortable Workplace Conversations
Bruce and Clark explore the delicate challenge of addressing personal issues like hygiene and verbal habits in professional settings while maintaining respect and professional boundaries.
• A Reddit post about a manager telling an intern they smell bad while simultaneously offering them a permanent position
• How managers can deliver difficult personal feedback constructively and with appropriate timing
• The importance of directness when addressing personal issues that affect workplace dynamics
• Balancing personal expression and professionalism when it comes to speech patterns and workplace behavior
• Managing the "gray area" of workplace etiquette that falls outside of HR violations
• Handling third-party complaints about behavior you haven't personally witnessed
• The difference between warranted feedback vs. personal preferences or biases
Join our Discord community through the link in the show notes to discuss jobs, networking, and professional development. Share the podcast with friends and colleagues, and check out our store for Corporate Strategy merchandise.
Click/Tap HERE for everything Corporate Strategy
Elevator Music by Julian Avila
Promoted by MrSnooze
Don't forget ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ it helps!
No, what are you saying?
Speaker 2:If it goes, it goes.
Speaker 1:If it shows, it shows, it goes it goes, it goes, it goes, it goes, it goes, it goes, it goes, good turn.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you can hear that at all.
Speaker 1:No, it cut most of it out. That was a Death Grips verse for all my Death Grips fans out there. I know most of the corporate strategy. Discord is a Death Grips fans out there. I know most of the corporate strategy. Discord is a Death Grips fan. So they really appreciated my rendition of that sweet verse from the song Guillotine.
Speaker 2:What if I am not a Death Grips fan?
Speaker 1:Well, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2:Mostly ignorance.
Speaker 1:Doubt wrong with you, mostly ignorance. Um doubt, doubt I would. I would bet most people don't know who death grips are, which is the cry and shame, but also maybe not. So you know it's. It's not everyone's cup of tea, that's all I'll say. It's like uh, it's almost it's cup of tea, that's all I'll say. It's almost what I would describe as like screeching electronica mixed with screaming rap. You know, like it's not a flavor for the little ears, as they would say.
Speaker 2:I was about to say, not something you can play in the minivan. Huh, yeah, it's one of those.
Speaker 1:It it like it sounds upon first listen, kind of like all of your appliances are breaking at the same time, with a man screaming in the background, things that you can't understand because the lyrics are so muddled in his scream. But phenomenal music. Just love it. Love it to death. The the money store, one of the greatest albums ever made. Just non-stop bangers, track of track. Highly recommend. I'm gonna have to check this out.
Speaker 2:So what's for I? I think I would be hard pressed to not have listened to this with you at some point in our time together.
Speaker 1:You have and you've purged it from your memory. I definitely used to listen to this in the carpool days. So it happened, you heard it. Okay, all right. Well, I'm going to look it up. Money Score came out, I think, like right at the end of our carpool days, yeah, so, yeah, I mean you got in on the cusp.
Speaker 2:I want you to tell the people is it Death Grips with a, Z or an?
Speaker 1:S. No, it's with an S Death Grips oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I'm looking at their cover for their Apple Music thing right now and it's terrifying.
Speaker 1:Some of their covers are wildly inappropriate. Oh, that's all.
Speaker 2:I'll say, yeah, I see a few. This is not what I was expecting. Oh wow, the Money Store. That is a very inappropriate one. Kids don't look this up. Parents with kids don't look this up.
Speaker 1:Parents with kids, avoid the death grips. Wait until they're 18. Then they can appreciate the true master tracks brought by MC Rye, excited to give it a try. Main singer Nice, it's good stuff. It's good stuff and this is the Corporate Strategy Music Pod. Bring in album recommendations directly to your ears. I'm Bruce and I'm Clark. Didn't see that one coming, did you?
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:Where are you going?
Speaker 2:I feel like at some point we just become like our whole entire lives are just spin-off podcasts from this podcast.
Speaker 1:Yes, that reminds me I'm supposed to. I was like supposed to on the last episode. Shout out, I'm on another podcast with my wife now.
Speaker 2:You've got a podcast, I've got another podcast with my wife. Now you got a podcast, I've got another. I never, I never knew. So wait, hold on a second. You're, you're cheating on me with your wife.
Speaker 1:Yes, correct, that's absolutely correct. Uh, it's about a topic that I don't think you'd be able to keep up with me on, which is video games and media. Uh, if you, if you like me talking about video games and media, if you like me talking about video games and media, we have a whole podcast now on her YouTube channel and apparently Spotify coming soon. I don't. It's KiteTales is the channel. I don't know what. The KiteTales and Flex. I think the podcast is just KiteTales and Flex. I go by many monikers out there, so you know, if you like that, tune in.
Speaker 2:That's cool Nice.
Speaker 1:I'm going to check it out. Very cool yeah.
Speaker 2:I definitely, I definitely could not hang and I would never be on that podcast.
Speaker 1:So it makes sense. Yeah, I think the you know, one day I'm going to drag you through. When you're, when you're able to show your face, I'm going you through uh, some game streams which I think will be a really fun time. I agree, I don't. I don't think you know the kind of corporate strategy games that exist out there that I would love to see you suffer through I'm a little baby cherub waiting for.
Speaker 1:It's funny. It's funny, little cherub. Uh, we met because and like, I took an interest in you because you like Zelda. Yep, it's like, oh, you like Zelda, you must be cool. Now it turns out I was wrong.
Speaker 2:You were very wrong and I weaseled my way into your friendship. And look, it wasn't about gaming all along. That's the miracle of Christmas.
Speaker 1:It was like oh, you like Zelda because there's fishing in that game and you actually like fishing, fishing. Oh, I see, you tricked me, you tricked me clock.
Speaker 2:You didn't see clark the cherub bringing that on, did you? Now?
Speaker 1:you know, little cherub clark yeah, you're here, something wild, yeah, please. My brother-in-law had a child well, he didn't have a child. Sister-in-law had a child Well, he didn't have a child. Sister-in-law had the child. But my family, extended family, had a child. You know what they named? Their son Cherub.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Clark, little baby Clark, that's awesome, I'm so-. There are two of you out there now.
Speaker 2:I'm so honored that they would name their child after me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, I remember we did have Keelan on the podcast a long time ago talking about unions. She was so impressed by you. Name the child after you. Congratulations, really incredible.
Speaker 2:I just am so touched. Like anything, anytime anybody has a baby and they name them after me. This is not the first time. I just feel so blessed. It's the fifth time. I love to have babies named after me and to kiss the little cherubs on the face. Yeah, these babies are.
Speaker 1:Kiss them on the fist On the face, right on the forehead. You grab their little arm, little little hand, contracts into a fist and it's like give me little keys, little keys on the beast hey regardless of what, whether it's fist or forehead, one of the two.
Speaker 2:Either way, I feel very honored. So thank you, keelan, for you know naming your child after me. I can't wait to get you a gift, which is the corporate strategy baby onesie oh, that would be perfect to get a little baby Clark and a baby onesie.
Speaker 1:We're going to make this magic happen. I think we should do it, we should log into that store and see if it still works.
Speaker 2:I think we need to get one of the names. We'll update it. I think we need to get an updated design with a little name tag that says Hi, I'm, and then we'll put clark on it oh, that's cute.
Speaker 1:That's cute. Yes, you can do that with ai, right like you can knock that out in five minutes for sure. Yeah, no doubt figure so much seemed like it was in your realm of realm of uh possibility take the logo shove a hi, my name is on there. Get it ready for a baby. That's all you need.
Speaker 2:That's all you need easy enough. That's it. Well, how are you doing vibe check? Quick vibe check. How are your feet?
Speaker 1:still healing. Uh, this is only a few days after we recorded the previous podcast, even though it's seven days after, uh, for you, the listener. So I'm still in the healing phase, but much better. Every day a little bit more, a little bit less pain, a little bit more mobility. I think think tomorrow marks the seventh day of the procedure, and then I can start sleeping without band-aids on my toes at night. So exciting progress, yeah. My right foot is like a hundred percent better.
Speaker 2:The left foot is still healing, but there was a lot more work done on the left. One Huge milestone coming up, so proud of you. How's your? No more band? How is your baby toe? Yeah, uh, update. I'm looking at now. It's still a little purple, but good news is, didn't break it. I overreacted. I thought, dude, I thought I fractured it. It was black and blue for like two days afterwards, but now I can walk normally. It's all good. It's a little bit of pain if I kick something on accident, but it's good. I think I'm recovered, fully healed.
Speaker 1:I'm 100% Good. I'm really glad to hear that. I'm happy one of us had a healing journey in their life. How often do you kick things by accident?
Speaker 2:When you're a reckless cherub like me, and hopefully we didn't just completely disconnect.
Speaker 1:When you're a reckless cherub like me.
Speaker 2:Okay good, when you're a reckless cherub like me, you sometimes walk around like a bull in a china shop and you just kick things. It happens.
Speaker 1:Now, when you say you kick them, are you accidentally swinging your foot into it or are you winding up like a soccer ball and just you know I'm accidentally kicking? This Depends, depends that's it, that's all I'm gonna say okay, cool, I have lost visual contact to clark, so I I just cannot tell uh, when when he's done versus when he's gone. Hey, clark, yeah, hey, hey, I'm gonna do a couple check-ins with you. Uh, are you ready to talk about our topic for the day?
Speaker 2:yeah, we probably should. You know, given, uh, the internet latency that is happening around me right now, my internet provider, for whatever reason. It was so funny. My wife and I were talking like, yeah, they've actually been like really consistent lately. I remember when they used to just go in and out for the year Actually she's a teacher, so she's on summer the second that happened. They are so flaky, in and out, in and out, and now that's what's happening to us right now. So, for the sake of time, I say we do it and jump right into this topic.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. So, one of the I kept the career guidance. I read it open and I looked at it this morning and my gosh such a good topic that I think we could actually dedicate an entire episode to, because it's not just this post I think we can solve, for I think it's a bigger thing in general and it's something we've never talked about on this podcast before. Are you ready?
Speaker 2:I mean the fact that we found something we haven't talked about 165 episodes is pretty impressive.
Speaker 1:So I am pumped, I know Okay, so check this out the post. My manager told me I smell bad and everyone talks about it. Then hired me. I literally don't know how to proceed and I'm wondering if quitting is the right option. Now here's the context. I'm an intern today.
Speaker 1:My manager sat down, told me I'm lacking hygiene. Several people have complained about my smell and people are talking about it. She also told me that I'm the best intern she's ever had, that I clearly very smart, dedicated, 100% fit for a new opening that came up. That role was mine, if I wanted it, but the only thing she was concerned about was my stench. I was so in shock so I just said I was open to it, congratulated me for getting the role We'd start the proceedings and reminded me that I need to take better care of my hygiene and then joked that I would have to hug her every morning so she'd make sure I'm good. I guess I should be happy about it. I got the job, but I'm totally humiliated Just spoke. She spoke with me before about it and I thought I'd solved it, but I guess not.
Speaker 1:I don't smell, which I guess is the problem. Boyfriend tells me that I smell nice. I feel like I want to hide in a place where everyone sees me as one who stinks. I feel like I want to throw myself out of a bridge and never show up to work again. But I don't have another job and I lined up and I've already accepted this one. I think this is the lowest I've ever felt. Now I I want to talk about this post specifically, but I also want to talk about, like, dealing with these kind of issues that don't necessarily fall under work, like people who cook popcorn in the microwave and burn it. You know food that smells bad, when people bring in things from the outside that aren't exactly HR violations but are just also a little bit uncouth. How do you handle it Now, clark? What's your immediate reaction to this story?
Speaker 2:Well, one. I was really confused on how you're going to take this into a bigger topic, but now, now we're here, we're here. Also, start at the bottom. Now we're here. You know, it's interesting because usually, in my experience, people who you need to tell this, typically don't know that they, like they're they're pretty unaware, right, they've never thought about it before, and so, like this is like news to them whenever it happens, like wait, what? Like I didn't even know, or you know, it's like the first time they're ever being told. So this one's interesting because they they've been told by multiple people that they're fine, you know, the boyfriend included, unless all those people are like lying to them. Like, do you think something weird is here with, like, the manager, where the manager just has this? You know, people smell things different. Do you think the manager just smells like their cologne or their perfume and like that just smells wrong to them.
Speaker 1:I mean, the manager said they heard it from other co-workers, so unless the manager lied, I think this person probably does have a smell about them. Um, as a person, I I I sweat a lot, so therefore I smell a lot. I have to be very cautious and careful about my stank, cause I don't want that getting on others. You know. Like it's just, I try to be very self-aware about that. In general, I feel like this person is trying, but maybe they're missing something specific, like it could be bad breath, it could be, you know, like maybe they don't wash their hair enough, I don't know. They're like there's lots of reasons this person could stink. I think the fact that the manager brought it up like right, as they're giving them a job is kind of expert level managing, because they clearly like this person. This person is clearly talented, but they do have something about them that they can fix that maybe they don't realize. And what better way to tell someone with the good news of we'd like to give you a job?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it is a perfect time to tell them. But I guess it's like like in this. In this sense, this person's like wanting to not show up to work. Obviously they accept the position right thing to do. They feel embarrassed, right, they do. They feel really embarrassed.
Speaker 2:But I agree with you, it's like that is a great time to tell them this, instead of an awkward managerial meeting where you're like I got three complaints this week. I really got to address this. Now you have to come up with ways to address this and you have no like occasion or anything to say nicely, you're just like. I only have one topic today you smell awful. Like to your point. This is expert level managing of saying like we're hiring you and what I like about the way that it was approached. It wasn't like a but thing, it was like but I need to take care of this. It was like listen, you're great, we want to hire you to do really great work. You know the one thing of an area of improvement is you know interpersonal, you know understanding of how you I don't even know how to like say this of how you smell around others.
Speaker 1:I mean, I feel like the more direct you are in this case, the better. Like this is one of those things where directness if anything, the boss is probably a little too light. Like I would. I would try and figure it out right. Like if it's a, if it's like an animal smell, then you'd be like well, I understand why your boyfriend probably doesn't smell it, because you live in a house with animals and it's on your clothes. Uh, you know, maybe just do an extra, you know, run the laundry or something like that, when you, you wash your clothes and keep those separate from. Like it's probably something they're both blind to as a smell that's attached them itself, to them.
Speaker 1:Like I feel like you can help diagnose this problem as the manager and give them some really good feedback that will help them, because here's the thing. Like I know, this person feels bad right now. In a quarter, no one's gonna remember this, no one's going to remember this. No one's going to be like, hey, remember when, remember when Clark used to smell bad. Like people don't hold onto that kind of stuff, and if they do, they're really sucky people and they're like that's the kind of people you want to avoid at all costs. But like you try and forget that kind of thing because it's it's really outside of your control or it's something that you're missing and it's like that's, that's something to be embarrassed about.
Speaker 2:This isn't a correct. I think there's a, there's a fine line in the diagnosing and I don't even think it's a main topic, but I think this is important to call out from what you just said to your point. It's like maybe at home you're fine and maybe bike or jogging to work and then you're all sweaty. I that's an okay thing to bring up. It's like I know you go to work out at lunch but everybody says you know when you come back you do smell. So maybe try taking a shower right after that before you start working. Same if you were biking to work in the morning and that's probably why your partner's not smelling it, because it's, you know, after you or before you did the activity.
Speaker 2:But I think the careful thing, if you're a manager like if you don't definitively have something that's non, I don't know argumentative or non, you know if it's not theoretical and hypothesizing, the one thing you want to watch out for is like if you're like, yeah, maybe if you wore some deodorant and you know, maybe they are a different race or ethnicity than you, and like, maybe they don't religion and they don't believe in some of that stuff, now you're starting to cross the lines and like HRr territory so I think you've got to be really careful well and I think that's where the broader topic comes in too is, like you know, if someone does practice some kind of religion, that does you know different kind of prayer or you know different kind of behavior than what you're used to.
Speaker 1:Like it can be very difficult, especially when it creates that awkwardness to approach that person and talk to them about it right, Like you run a risk of being an HR violation yourself by bringing it up Like you don't want to be. Like correct.
Speaker 2:Exactly that's the word. Intolerant, I think that's the word. It's like you've got to and you, I think you said something really important. It's like that it's only your perspective and if it's not like a holistic truth, you ride your bike into work and you have a whole entire sweat stain down your back like nobody can argue that right. It's like take a shower, man. There's visual evidence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:But if there's not like that definitive human being nature, and you don't know, don't do it. Like if you're questioning it one bit. Don't even do it. Maybe go talk to your HR partners to figure it out, so you have a better way to approach it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, mean it's tough. It's tough in general anytime it's a it's not like a character well, even character flaws, right, like people have verbal tics, people say things that can really start to grind on your gears when you hear it. You pick up like you gotta be careful of what I say sometimes because I can implicate myself. But like, let's just say you know there's an individual who starts every sentence with the word my dudes. Right, like hypothetically, this person's just like my dudes, let's, let's go do this my dudes. Come on, let's go, my dudes.
Speaker 1:Like one that, even though that's part of like their character flaw, it's probably worth having a conversation with them, because that can come off, is a little bit insensitive, especially if there are not just men or dudes present. Right, especially, you know, like be considerate of everyone else around you and two, it just you. You lose a little bit of like the, the professionalismism about yourself when you have filler words, especially when you rely on them a lot. A good mentor and manager would try and help pull you out of that and it's going to be a very hard conversation to have saying hey, hey, buddy, do you like to say the word my dudes? A lot I've noticed and I think you could actually benefit by trying to work that out of your vocabulary and use it less and like it's hard right, cause that's an opinion. I might be the only one who thinks that my dudes thing is a problem. You know, I know that's not always the case, but it could be like. How do you deal with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good point for that one one to your point way earlier. It's like, maybe it's about framing. You know, the job offer was like the perfect time to bring up. It's like a compliment sandwich thing. It's like you bring it in with good news. That way it's easier to take. Maybe something like this you know, if someone were to use the my Dudes Everywhere and it's like, hey, I've been focusing, you know, on your career development and thinking about, like how you continue to grow. And one thing that's stuck out to me as I've started putting more attention in this is you really need to focus on using more professional and inclusive language when you're communicating with your teams and like that can go into. Then get specific. It's like you know, specifically, I hear you say my dudes 10 times every meeting and maybe use something like team or hey, everyone like something more inclusive but also more professional, like that's really going to help in your communication.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think the funny thing is is you can have a personality, you can have a brand and a style. You know, if you listen to the podcast, you hear how I talk. I'm very much this way in meetings, in person, at work, but I've tried to always be cognizant of the professional line. I walk like if I say what's up, fam, when I start a team meeting, I know that that audience who is receiving the fam is one that will receive it positively. And if I'm in a culture where that's not appropriate one, I gotta get out of that culture. So I'm I'm evaluating my pack in that regard. But two, it's it's also a little troublesome. It's like, well, fam is a very you know, it's an open word, right, like I'm just, I'm just being friendly, I'm being bringing a little levity into this thing, and if it's not appropriate one, I would hope that I know that situation. And two, that I'm aware of it. So, right, it's.
Speaker 1:Everything's such a delicate balancing act at work your smell, your speech, your appearance, uh, you know if, if you show up to work and there's food in your beard, or if your hair looks just like, uh, you know, a seagull's nest every day, that's probably also a problem, like people will look at you and they might be revulsed by what they see. That's not a good thing to have happen to you. But again, it's really hard to do. It Like how do you tell someone hey, uh, you know, I think if you combed your hair or use a little bit of styling product, people might feel more comfortable around. Like you can't say that, so it's like how do you deal with that?
Speaker 2:You know? Yeah, absolutely. And to your point, yeah, it's. Maybe it is a little about framing it's, you know saying, hey, we have a work code of conduct and you know a dress code, and part of that is making sure you look clean and get up and make sure that you, you know, are able to not show up in sweatpants every day, and those are the things that it's like. To your point, it's difficult because, inherently, as people, we have opinions, we have mindsets and we experience things differently, and so I think that's why it's so like I think Danny Yonkers would say this too that's why managing is so difficult, because you have to keep in mind so many different perspectives and situations to deal with, and it's not, it's not point blank, or you know black and white.
Speaker 2:It's very gray of how you should deal with it, and I think that's where you have to be so, so careful. There are some things that you just can't tolerate. You know, and I think that's where you have to be so, so careful, there are some things that you just can't tolerate.
Speaker 1:You know and I think that's where those things are are very black and white don't realize it.
Speaker 2:As a manager, you can't tolerate it. And it's like those scenarios are very different, because it's like, okay, you're hurting somebody, you're creating a toxic workplace, and those things have to be dealt with immediately and very direct. And maybe it's because it kind of follows the same rule of it's like very, it's very indistinct, indistinct, I don't even know what the right word. It's very, what's the right word? Non-argumentative, like you know, when you see it, you know it and everybody can feel it. But I think people can perceive things differently.
Speaker 2:Like I know a lot of people who have, who are, you know, really smart, but they're a little abrasive in the way that they work, and like they've had to learn to tone those things back and figure out how to communicate with others. But it's hard because they don't see it Like when you talk to them specifically, they're like, oh, I don't really know what you're talking about. Like, really, I did that, and it's like yeah, yeah, you did that. And here was the meeting where it occurred, and this is how it made some people feel. And I think people who are self-aware and have goodwill to them will be open to that feedback. What you've got to look out for is people who aren't or they're like who said that Give me a name.
Speaker 2:The second you see that that person needs to be off the team immediately, because that will only continue with that behavior and that will be a toxic culture that's building. But if they're open to it and they're like, oh my goodness, like are you serious, I had no idea I was doing that Like please give me anything you can do so I avoid doing that in the future and I'll be more conscious of it, it's like, okay, this person clearly just didn't see it and they are just trying to do their best.
Speaker 1:Some people can be very, very sensitive to feedback, especially when it comes to other people, which is like that's the hard part. Right Is when you as a manager might not have a problem with the behavior, but someone else does, and then it's your obligation and responsibility to say hey, you know, dave, listen up. People don't like the fact that you know you come off so direct, like, and it's hard because you'd be like well, I really like Dave's directness with. For me that really gels with my CAC. I never have to wonder is Dave being honest with me?
Speaker 1:But, like some people might find and we saw this a lot in engineering it was like super abrasive, right. Like he'll just tell you yeah, this code's no good, your code's bad, you need to go back and refactor it. Here's where you can fix things Like it's like which. Again, this is a very American problem. You don't really have this problem in Europe because people are just direct there, but directness can be seen as a negative quirk to have in American corporate structure. It's very frustrating and as a manager sometimes you have to go in and curb that, even though you might not have a problem with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I even think something important for a manager is whoever's giving the feedback, make sure it's warranted feedback, because you shouldn't just immediately act on any feedback that someone shares. You should gain your own perspective and monitor. Like your job as a manager is to monitor the situation. Like next time, if you got feedback that something's happening in meeting, you should swoop into the meeting Like hey guys, I'm just here to listen and observe and see how things are going. Like, if you aren't, if it's not definitively black and white, I have evidence. You need to get your own opinion and be observant and then share that feedback. But sometimes the feedback is not warranted and you have to give coaching. The other way to be like hey, susie, it's okay that jim likes to eat his rice while he's sitting at his desk. Like, if you're not a fan of him eating his rice, then during your lunch period feel free to separate yourself from the situation and go sit in the break room. But there's nothing against policy that says jim can't eat his rice at his desk. So I love like.
Speaker 1:Those are the things. Yeah, you're almost reversed to knowing feedback back on them. It's like hey, I understand you have a problem with this, but listen, there's nothing against corporate policy that says they can't do this, and if you have an issue with it, then you need to remove yourself from the situation, right?
Speaker 2:Exactly. It's a really good response. If someone approaches you with unwarranted feedback or something that doesn't make sense, that's also definitive of a toxic culture. Starting by that person Like that means that they are going to be more than likely difficult to work with and difficult, you know. Being a team player, I think I've seen that from time to time where it's like this person just complains like everything's a complaint, I'm working too fast, I'm working too slow, I'm not getting them what they need. It's like they're going to not be conducive to the team environment you're looking for.
Speaker 1:The one that I've seen. That's a little dangerous is when someone approaches you perhaps like your end, like maybe you were in the meeting where the thing happened or you know the full story. So now you have to basically say, actually the feedback you were given might be a little bias or, you know, unfairly tilted towards my staff. Here's what I know, here's what I know, here's what I've seen and here's some feedback about this person. And you know, like reverse Uno, it can get rough, Like it can get really rough when there's like a third party involved on the feedback chain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's where you have to use the observing nature and even put it back on that person, be like, hey, why don't we both go and like observe the meetings, or just to not cause alarms? You know, I'll step into a meeting one time. You know, next week you step into the meeting and we'll both kind of gain our different perspectives and then we'll come back together and we'll we'll compare notes on on what happened. The hard part to your point is like if things happen that are situational and you're getting third hand feedback from the situation, it's like, well, it happened in this meeting and it wasn't recorded and it was only between three people and I was one of them.
Speaker 2:It's like OK, now it's like who, whose voice do I listen to? Do I bring it up with this person and say I got this feedback? Like those are the hardest things for me as a manager is it's like, yeah, this happened in this one-off meeting. It was just us two. And it's like how do you, how do you handle that?
Speaker 2:And the way I've given feedback, because I've had this situation happen where someone approached me and they're like hey, I just no-transcript, you've got to separate yourself and come and talk to me and we'll work it through together. Or if it's a meeting, it's like I encourage you to invite other people to the meeting that are relevant to the conversation, so it's not just you and this person working together. That way, hopefully, you feel safer because you're with your team and you're not in one-on-one situations with this person. And then telling them hey, I'm there. You know, let's talk about this every week. If you need me to attend meetings, I'm more than happy to. I'll join in with you and I think that's the best advice you can give. It's like, if it's one-on-one and there's no way to know what happened, you've got to find ways, as as a manager, to give them the advice to keep this safe space and then, ultimately, give you time to assess the situation.
Speaker 1:I love that. I think that's a really good way to handle that situation. Specifically, a thought occurred to me when you were talking through that, of a behavior that we might have talked about on this podcast before, but I don't remember it, and now I'm kind of shocked that we haven't, and I think we could probably actually dedicate an entire episode to this behavior. So, or two, rather than going into it now and to save your internet some bandwidth, I'm just going to tease next week's topic. It's going to be a heater. Ooh, ooh, mm. I can smell it. It's getting spicy. You can smell it.
Speaker 1:It's because of what you said. It's specifically because of what you said. I was like, oh my gosh, like we need to talk about this specific thing that people do and how to handle it, both as I sees as managers, as those who might've said the word oh, I like that, or the phrase. I should say it's a phrase that people use to give a little tease to the topic we're going to have to hit this next week. This is an episode worthy. We can't do this justice, right?
Speaker 2:now my brain is not fully functioning and also my internet is crap right now, so hopefully this has been coherent.
Speaker 1:But I heard what you said and I'm excited. I'm excited for it. Good, I got most of what you said, so we're good on our end. Uh, and I think on that note, we can, we can go ahead and shut it down. Uh, clark's internet's dying, it's. It's not a short one by any means, but it's not as long as some of the previous ones. So we'll make up for it next week with a heater topic, I promise. Until then, join the discord the way you do that.
Speaker 1:Click on your show notes, go into the link tree, click join the discord. It's our community. We play games in there Like what do you mean? Is it me or is it corporate? And we just have a great group of people to talk about jobs, job experience, networking, marketing yourself. There's so many topics in there, so many channels to get involved in. Join, even if you just want to lurk. Please share the podcast with your friends, neighbors and family, share it with your enemies, share it with anyone who works in corp. Uh, word of mouth is how we grow. We have no natural marketing, even though one of us is a professional marketer. And if you're interested in getting your own baby onesie in that link tree in the show notes. There is a store you can go to to buy corporate strategy swag and other fun things. We profit off of it None. So if you want to help us out financially, you can buy us a coffee through that link as well. I think that'll do it for this week's episode. So until next time, circle the wagon.
Speaker 2:It could be I got a second one for you to hit me up. Go burn some popcorn in the group public dining area, just for the whole office to smell just do it.
Speaker 1:Burn that popcorn, don't go back for the bag. Let it, let it be on fire, leave it, just let that smoldering corn. Just smoke it up. And until you do, I'm bruce and I'm clark and you're on mute. We will see you next week.
