Speaker 1: 0:02

right when craig jumped in, you completely froze. Good, great I was like this is going to be a great start. You're just completely frozen solid. The second we hit start.

Speaker 2: 0:15

Did you see me power? Slam my keyboard I did.

Speaker 1: 0:18

You looked like that little, the meme, the gif of the cat, like just slamming his keyboard.

Speaker 2: 0:22

You know you looked look like it, that was me. I was doing the meme because you know, I I hit the return button, enter. Sorry, I hit the enter button. Yeah, return is for apple, enter is for. You're right, everyone else. Uh, did you know, that, did you?

Speaker 1: 0:39

know that. You know I always wanted to. I did know that, like because I've always seen the difference. But like you know my brain, I I don't, but I wanted to tell you my thing in my brain so you can correct me. The thing in my brain is like I thought if you just rearrange the letters, it'd be enter just spelt wrong. And I thought they were just trying to be cheeky. Is that the reason?

Speaker 2: 0:58

Well, there's no U in enter.

Speaker 1: 1:01

So good guess. Enter but no, there's enter and then there's enter, and that was the Mac way, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:11

You know, you're a little bit younger than me, Just a little bit, just a little bit. But you might not have ever had the opportunity in your life to touch a typewriter, have you ever?

Speaker 1: 1:21

touched a typewriter. I actually I have my grandpa had a typewriter and he actually typewriter. I actually I have my grandpa had a typewriter and he actually made me type one of my papers on it when I was in, like when I was in elementary school, I had to type a paper on it was really, really frustrating my grandfather also had a typewriter and it was very fun to play with as a young lady.

Speaker 2: 1:39

Uh, the return key on apple comes from the typewriter, because when you'd hit that button on the typewriter, the it's not a stylist, I forget what it's called. The little pin, little tracker, returns to its initial initial position and then feeds the paper, so it'd be return line feed uh lf yeah right lf right yeah linux command right, yeah, yeah, who doesn't know?

Speaker 2: 2:07

uh, so there you go and enter is just because it makes more sense on a keyboard, because you're entering commands, so keyboard enter return typewriter. Although you know, mac macintosh being macintosh, they want to be all fancy, so they kept the return.

Speaker 1: 2:25

Yep, and that's why they go with enter, just spell wrong.

Speaker 2: 2:29

No, no, that's not the word. I learned nothing.

Speaker 1: 2:34

I learned nothing in the last 30 seconds. No, it's like British, you know, it's just the UK version of English, where they just like remove letters and they spell favorite with a U. That's how I'm choosing to spell enter. I think they did it first.

Speaker 2: 2:48

I think they did it first and we did it differently. I do like color with a U, I feel like color is so much better with a U why? Did we get rid of the U, but we kept colonel with an L. That's the dumbest word especially since we have two versions of kernel in the english language kernel, the rank and military, and then there's kernel in your, your cob of corn popcorn, yeah, and linux.

Speaker 1: 3:18

Don't forget your linux kernel. Yeah, don't forget your linux kernel, which is is that spelled the same way as popcorn kernel? Yes, it's the same as popcorn kernel.

Speaker 2: 3:28

Oh my gosh, I could have told you what the significance of that meant if you didn't ask me right now. I did know that too. It was like there's the firmware, there's the kernel, there's the operating system. Because the kernel is below the operating system, I want to say Nope, Nope. The kernel doesn't no, it's not, it's really not oh it sucks.

Speaker 2: 3:49

You got time, it could, so I could google it, but I'm not going to in fact. Good, I don't want to. I don't want to share this information with our listeners. Go learn it for yourselves, that's the important lesson today.

Speaker 1: 4:01

this is the anti-ai bruce coming out, where he's just saying you have to remember this through your physical brain, do not cheat. Remember this. This is good for you.

Speaker 2: 4:12

I actually I had to update. I'm going to be updating both my LinkedIn as well as my author profile on my business website and the funniest thing was like they're like my business website. And the funniest thing was like they're like can you please use AI?

Speaker 1: 4:33

So it's AI optimized words and I'm like oh my gosh, just why don't you?

Speaker 2: 4:35

just do it for me. Then, Like it's all point is getting clicks and investment. I don't, I don't care. I haven't touched my LinkedIn in over a year. So I was like sure, If you want to just take over, I don't care. I haven't touched my LinkedIn in over a year, so I was like sure, if you want to just take over, have fun, have fun.

Speaker 2: 4:48

I hate that platform with a passion. Burn it to the ground. Do whatever you want with my profile and it's just like can you use AI to update your bio? Because we really need the AI words. This is so stupid. It is so stupid that we're and this is like a real thing right, Like basically every company today. If you're in the marketing department, you already know this. This is not new, but if you're not, you might not know this. Natural search is down by over 60%. So, like Google utilization, Bing, DuckDuckGo, whatever you're using is down by 60% compared to like last year, when it was down 14%. Like this is such a monumental jump in number drop that it's forcing all peoples of marketing ilk to have to relearn all the keywords because it's all about pleasing the AI.

Speaker 2: 5:42

Here's a free lesson for anyone that wants to do AI optimized writing. Believe it or not, the most important thing you can do is not use AI to write for AI optimized writing, because it's good at sensing itself. The reason I'm using it for my bio and my profile is because it looks for that kind of thing for people. But when it's looking for information specifically about your company, when it's looking for information specifically about your company, it's all about what you say in the heading one, heading two and heading three of your writing. And if it finds a good heading, then it's going to read the text in it and then it's going to absorb it and it's going to parrot it back and it's going to go do all that. But that's trick. And if it, if it picks up on ai language in that text, it's going to reject it. So it's looking for nuanced human written thing. So at least you know our jobs are safe for another year or so. But uh, it's just the times. Are it changing?

Speaker 1: 6:38

they are. It's interesting, like when you said that it's all about pattern matching and so if you use ai to write those things, it's going to be I already know. This isn't new information. Like I'm not going to add this or index this and you know exactly. Basically build it into the large language model. It's like I don't need to, I've already got that information and so you'll just kind of get buried underneath everything else as a source. Who's already using that information? And ai is not really great creative thinking, so like it's not going to come up with new stuff that it doesn't already know. That's kind of the whole way it works.

Speaker 1: 7:10

So it's interesting, like the way you said that, that it impacts your job that way. It impacts my job from like, like you basically just said, natural search is down, meaning search engine optimization is down, meaning ad spend is down, like all of that is less and less effective because nobody's using Google to search things anymore. I find myself more and more using chat GPT, because it's just easier, rather than scrolling through 10 links to just type in my question. Yeah, I know, I'm sorry, but it's true. It's like it's. It's more effective for a lot of the things I'm searching for than like clicking through three links and like trying to find the information, and so, like, the new thing is now basically agent optimize what's the word? They got a thing for it now Agent engine optimization or AI, engine optimization so.

Speaker 1: 7:55

AEO instead of yeah, it's AEO instead of SEO, and so like that's becoming. The new thing is like how you optimize your site. It needs to be basically optimized for large language models to be able to scrape it effectively, and so you have to. You've probably seen it before. If you go to like stripecom or whatever, they have all their documentation. Like LLMstxt is the new thing on everybody's site, because that's where they want all the LLMs to look in order to index their site to find the information. So it's no longer having like one indexhtml with a bunch of links and a bunch of sources. It's like now optimized for large language models, which is really interesting.

Speaker 2: 8:31

And the disgusting thing about all of it is is AI is actually stat ranking people. So, believe it or not, I am classified as like an authority to AI, and this was the discovery of my company, was they're like oh, ai really respects whatever you write and like it will actually take it and integrate it into its engines. I'm like, yeah, because I'm a human being that still writes words Like I'm not cheating, like everyone else in their job. Of course it respects what I write, like it's just funny, right, like I'll go read something, I'll learn about it, I'll write it, and that's my process. But discovery is, oh, if bruce writes something, now the ai has ranked bruce as an author, as a trusted source.

Speaker 2: 9:10

Yeah, there's, there's a word, it's an eeat, and I couldn't tell you for the life of me what eeat stands for, but it's. It's four different words and I am one because of some, something, something, authority, something, and, and. So now I have to get my profile set so, as I continue to be an EEAT, I can help the AIs take everyone's jobs. So you're welcome everybody. Thank you. I'm part of the problem because I'm doing my job well. As per usual, doing good work is a punishment for both you and everyone around you, so what a wonderful, fantastic future we're working ourselves into.

Speaker 1: 9:50

We have a lot to look forward to. Having a great time out here, really looking forward to it. Yeah, it's interesting. I was at a tech conference in June and one of the guys I met there is like a renowned Stack Overflow super user who worked at Google for a long time. Now he works somewhere else. He answered like over 10,000 or maybe even more than that things on Stack Overflow and his answers were always like ranked as the right answer and so obviously, when AI came around, they just scraped all of his stuff and so it was interesting.

Speaker 1: 10:22

As I was talking to him, he was like, yeah, I was trying to figure out, are they actually using my answers for like coding related problems since they scraped Stack Overflow? And I was trying to ask him like, hey, what's like the Google verified way to do something? And he was purposely asking because he's like I solved this problem in a unique way that no one saw before Google didn't solve before. I solved it, I wrote the code for it and when I asked it to answer this question, it repeated my code back to me, my unique code that I posted on Stack Overflow eight years ago, and he's like this was really interesting because obviously I didn't give it authority to do that, but I'm sure Stack Overflow didn't either. But now it's proof that it's trained off data that's out there on the internet and it's stolen. All that as like unique answers you want my prediction?

Speaker 2: 11:08

tell me prediction. I'm ready. Within the next five years, we're gonna see ai data centers get blown up and burned to the ground like it's going to happen.

Speaker 1: 11:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's five years, yeah it's gonna be like.

Speaker 2: 11:23

It's gonna be like terminator, but the machines aren't the threat, it's gonna be the people. Yeah, because this is coming for so many people's jobs. Uh, there was my wife actually posted in our discord um, all of the jobs that were threatened by ai and all the jobs that weren't. And you look at either of those lists and it's terrifying because I don't want to be a garbage man, but also, what else can I do? And you're going to see, it's going to be like the end of Fight Club, but for all of these AI data centers.

Speaker 2: 11:57

And part of me is excited for it because Viva La Revolution. Like, it's been a while and I think I think we've we're reaching that boiling point where we need to start burning down buildings. But part of me also doesn't want to live through any more historic events in my life, as someone who's lived through many. So you know it'll be. It'll be interesting. Yeah, I can't wait. No, it's not going to be fun. It it's not going to be fun. It's going to be miserable and we're going to be very hungry and it's going to suck, but maybe we'll live through it.

Speaker 1: 12:28

Well, they're going to define what fun means. So once AI defines what fun means, trust me you're going to have fun and you're going to like it.

Speaker 2: 12:35

I'm going to have fun picking up trash Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 12:38

Let me tell you that article was so interesting. It was like jobs that are secure from ai, like dishwasher, house cleaner, like things that are like, why, like, why couldn't those have been like the first things that ai goes for? But I think, um, somebody else in the discord was coming back and they were like it's because, you know, robotics with ai are not at the level where they're commoditized and where it's affordable for people to have them, so those jobs will be safe longer than other jobs where it's like web developer. It's like people you can just code all you can write agents that will write all of your websites for you, based off a single prompt, and so it was really, really interesting to look at the results of that. And, yeah, definitely some of those jobs.

Speaker 1: 13:17

I was not expecting, like, data scientists to be on there, but it is interesting of thinking of that loop. It's like the data scientists are the one who train these large language models, and now the large language models have gotten so good they no longer need data sciences to basically train the large language models. They can just scrape all the data and follow the pattern, and so it's really, really interesting kind of looking at that data and unfortunately, I think your pessimistic look at the future is probably going to be very true.

Speaker 2: 13:45

You know what isn't pessimistic. What's that? Welcome back to Corporate Strategy. Podcasts could have been an email. I'm Bruce and I'm Clark.

Speaker 1: 13:54

What's up, Clark, how you doing? Hey, it's good to see you. I'm happy we're here. Hey, you know it's funny. Usually we just banter at the beginning and just have some fun. But before we even started today's podcast, we had a revolution about my brain and it didn't even make it. It didn't even make the cut. That was like the most valuable thing that we've talked about.

Speaker 2: 14:13

You burned some really good pod. Unfortunately I should have had Craig jump in sooner. Do you want to share the revelation we came up with to the class?

Speaker 1: 14:20

Yeah, Well, we've got a theory theory. We don't know if it's true, but we have a lot of evidence that would point towards it being true.

Speaker 2: 14:29

So I start by saying this all came about because I see clark just chugging like a liter bottle of cold, it's gone, that's great. He literally starts the pod. There's, there's half a bottle of cold, a liter of cold brew in his hand. We're talking cold brew, cold pressed coffee that's heavily, heavily caffeinated. And I mean, I am an enjoyer of cold brew myself, but I will only do it, like you know, sparingly, because I have reduced my caffeine intake. And I said Clark, stop, how much is cold brew a day? Because it's like it's four o'clock on a Sunday. You go to bed in four hours, like how much cold brew are you drinking?

Speaker 1: 15:12

And you said I said this is probably my second, and that's like within. That's within like the last few hours. And then that kicked off this whole thing about what are you doing with your life? Why are you making these life choices? This is really bad for your health. And then we started getting into.

Speaker 1: 15:30

You know some of the interesting facts of how my body and my brain reacts to caffeine? And the answer is we don't think it does. So I've I've been drinking coffee for a long time. Um, background my dad basically got to start drinking coffee when we were really young and even to this day he still drinks fully caffeinated coffee, like eight o'clock at night. Anytime we're over there, he's like you guys want a coffee and we're like, no, it's like eight o'clock at night, like we don't need a coffee. We're going to bed very soon, but like we just grew up drinking a lot of coffee.

Speaker 1: 16:01

So by the nature of that, I just love the taste of coffee. Like it's really refreshing to me to have coffee in the morning, a hot coffee, in the afternoons or evenings having like a nice little cold coffee or an espresso, like that's very normal. But what's interesting is like I don't get a strong buzz. I can drink a cup of coffee and go to bed Like it has almost no effect on me.

Speaker 1: 16:21

And so we were discussing like okay, well, what else is unique? Do you have regressions if you don't drink coffee for a while? And the answer to that is no too. Like anytime we go my wife and I go on trips and we don't have like easy access to coffee, or we go a few days without it, I usually am just fine, and on the other hand, she gets like a headache from the withdrawal. And so we started talking about this and Bruce was like well, maybe there's something going on with your brain where the part of your brain that basically you know is trying to get your body to go to sleep, it is blocking the caffeine from like reaching that part of your brain. So maybe you have an intolerance, and I think it's true.

Speaker 2: 16:58

I think it's very true. I'm leaning so much into true and it's interesting. I watched a whole masterclass on sleep, which is how I learned about, like, how caffeine actually works in the brain and everything you have said seems counter to how the brain actually works, which makes me think that your brain is actively rejecting the chemical caffeine and that and like I was telling you earlier, it's like it's not unusual. There have been cases of people who can't get drunk. You know they'll, they'll smoke marijuana and they can't get high, and it's because their brain actively rejects the chemical, so the body just processes it and disposes of it as waste. Uh, it doesn't get attached to whatever the receptor is on the brain side to create the chemical reaction.

Speaker 1: 17:41

Yeah, I think you're caffeine resist resilient, like you have no effect of caffeine yeah, yeah, it's interesting and like it is kind of cool because, yeah, I don't. I don't get regression, I don't have trouble sleeping, like if I drink coffee before bed, no issues, I'm a good sleeper, I even when I have it, I don't get jitters or like a buzz in any way. Um, I was telling bruce, I wake up pretty early and right now my wife is waking up a little later because she's on summer break and she basically, when she gets up, she gets coffee ready and everything like that. I've already been up for maybe an hour hour and a half. Nothing like no effect whatsoever. But I like the ritual of drinking coffee, so I'll drink a coffee, but it doesn't like wake me up, like I already feel the same as I did when I wake up. So I think this is very true and I think what's probably better for my body and maybe my brain or maybe it doesn't matter is that I switched to decaf, especially in the afternoons. Is that better for me?

Speaker 2: 18:37

I don't think it's going to matter. I really don't. You don't think so. I think because your brain is rejecting it. And the big clue for me was actually when you said you took a five day hiatus and then you came back and you drank, but you didn't feel any different, like when I've given up caffeine for weeks or months at a time, that first time I have a coffee after being off of it, like where it's left my system completely. It is like, oh, you know, like it is like a shock to the system. Like even after the first sip you're like, oh my gosh, I could kill a boar if I wanted to with my bare hands, right. So like that to me, tells me, if there's no physical change for you, you are resistant to the chemical. Yeah, very interesting right.

Speaker 1: 19:24

I don't think that's like college, like Like I've never put this together until today and that's why this is a really interesting revolution to share with everybody, because I think it's like the placebo effect, because people around me act like that, like I remember in college, like my, my roommate, really close friend of mine, he, he would drink like coffee.

Speaker 1: 19:41

We take coffee, we take like a quick nap and we wake up and be like all right, we're ready to like study or do homework or whatever, and take like a quick nap and we wake up and be like all right, we're ready to like study or do homework or whatever. And I remember like I didn't have like really any impact from that, like it tasted good, it was fine, I slept right after, no problem. But I in the next after I woke up, I was totally fine, but he was like off the walls, he's like shaking, he's like really really hyper and like yeah, and for me I was like I just got to feel normal, like we took a nap. So I I feel a little refreshed, but maybe this is it this whole time. I should do a test or if anybody listening to this episode has anything like this if you have caffeine resilience or if you've done some sort of test like this. Maybe that's what I should do, just to figure out if this is true.

Speaker 2: 20:21

I think it is, I think it is. I think we should get you on black tar heroin and see how that works for you?

Speaker 1: 20:26

Yeah, I think it is. Yeah, I think we should get you on black tar heroin and see how that works. Yeah, as a counter, you know, keep the coffee in, but like introduce something else. That way you find out.

Speaker 2: 20:32

Variable X you know, we got it. We have to find out. We must know more. I've got some. I got some neighbors who are brewing some, some fresh meth. Oh yeah, send that down your way and see if that energizes you a little bit, yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:45

Yeah, please do. I was also telling Bruce, I don't have a an addictive personality and, like I always attributed it to that. So I think, even if you know I started this, it would just be like a one or two time thing. I'd be like that was fun. What's next? Well, it's not.

Speaker 2: 20:58

I mean you, you might not have an addictive personality because you haven't actually tried a substance that you can get addicted to. Maybe is the thing you know like if, if that's if the coffee thing, I mean like you're not smoking cigs and you know doing doing crack in the evening, so you're you're not really doing substances that are highly addictive, so I wouldn't be. I wouldn't be. I mean like maybe sugar, right, like I guess you can get addicted to sugar, but like, have you ever been addicted to sugar?

Speaker 2: 21:27

I you get a headache if you don't have your Snickers in the afternoon.

Speaker 1: 21:30

No, not, really no. And also, what's interesting is like I can eat the same. I don't think this is related, but I'm going to bring it up anyway. I can eat the same thing over and over, like over and over and over again Same day chicken broccoli. I could eat that every meal, every day. I'd be totally fine. Disgusting, I know.

Speaker 2: 21:47

I know that's ugh. Just baked chicken, Just baked, you know, grilled.

Speaker 1: 21:53

I mean I prefer grilled. I prefer grilled because then you get the char marks on it. It's delicious, it's so good. Why do you need anything else you?

Speaker 2: 22:00

know I'm disgusted by everything. It disgusted by everything. You just I um it's funny one of my favorite foods I love a good, uh, fried chicken, like a, like a uh, you know, like a chicken wing or a. Like a lightly fried chicken wing, like, not a, not a heavily like. I like that crispy skin, that's good. But I don't like a lot of breading and I also don't like no breading, so I'm very particular. But if it's done right, like a chicken sandwich, for example, love me a chicken sandwich. Yeah, just mm. So good, give it to me.

Speaker 2: 22:38

A chicken tender Mm Fried chicken. Boneless chicky tender Mm Covered in hot sauce. Yeah. Buddy Tiki tender covered in hot sauce, yeah buddy, oh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:47

It's a gift. It's a gift to us all. You know what else is a gift? Oh what, Tell me. It's one of the appreciation languages Tangible gifts no way. Caffeine, fried chicken, tangible gifts in my mind, and it ties right into our topic. Can you believe?

Speaker 2: 23:05

that. Can you give chicken as a tangible gift? I need to go change all my answers on the test. I'll be honest.

Speaker 1: 23:11

I will be honest if a co-worker were to show up my office and be like hey, I've got a chick-fil-a chicken sandwich for you. I just thought it'd be a nice gesture. I might say tangible gifts is my number one, yeah, yeah, that's what I might switch it on the spot.

Speaker 2: 23:28

Yeah, I think if they brought me like a plate of hot, hot fried chicken with french fry on the side, uh, slathered in some kind of sweet and hot sauce, boneless, that would be my number one, my number one I would drop everything I would feel so appreciated. Gratitude service. Screw all that Quality time. I'm about to have some quality time with hot chicken.

Speaker 1: 23:56

That's what I'm going to do. I think tangible gifts just goes to the top. If fried chicken is involved, tangible gifts is number one. So if you're ever feeling like you need to appreciate someone, but you don't know what their appreciation language is, just get them some fried chicken and let's just say 9.9 times out of 10, they're going to be like, yeah, this is amazing.

Speaker 2: 24:13

I feel so appreciated, right? I mean, unless they're a vegetarian, then you know you're going to upset them.

Speaker 1: 24:20

They can pick the breading off. They'll be fine.

Speaker 2: 24:25

That's not how.

Speaker 1: 24:31

There is no r and enter, and that's not how vegetarians work. No, you and enter.

Speaker 2: 24:32

It was very close oh, it's a tangible gift. Tell me about it. I want to know what the heck, is a tangible gift.

Speaker 1: 24:42

All right, so continuing our series, we're talking about the appreciation languages of there. There there are five. This is number four tangible gifts. So we have one more after this, which is physical touch, but tangible gifts. That is the one we are talking about today. I want you to think back. We're going to go through an exercise here. Okay, what would be one of the top gifts a coworker or a boss has ever given you? I have mine. If you want to put some thought onto it, I can go first.

Speaker 2: 25:14

Yeah, go for. I have mine too, but go first, Okay.

Speaker 1: 25:17

So one of my old bosses many years ago, actually at the company I'm at now but like right when I started he was a great, awesome boss, but he definitely, you know, made sure that he remembered things like my birthday or big events. He's like, oh yeah, it's your wife's birthday, or like you guys usually go on a trip this time of year. Like he was really really great about like remembering things that I was interested in and that I did, and he gave me this gift. He was like I noticed you're always writing things down, so this year for your birthday, you know I got you this really cool leather bound book and so he gave it to me.

Speaker 1: 25:49

He's like it has, I think, all the things you know you normally write down. You know your tasks, your to-dos. It's organized by the day of week. He's like I really think you know this would be a gift that you'd like, so I hope you like it. And like it's in the style that I like he was paying attention to the things that I did within my book and like how I would always bring it out at certain times of meetings and then he gave it to me. So it was super thoughtful and when he did that, I was like this is awesome, like it's exactly the style I would like. I'm not huge on gifts, but I really feel appreciated that you put the time in to like recognize things I'm interested in and then, you know, found the specific gift that matched those things. That's definitely my all-time favorite.

Speaker 2: 26:27

I'm going to paint you a picture. All right, paint me a picture, I'm ready, I'm going to take you back in time. Yep, I want you to imagine, if you can, being outside it's August, oh hot.

Speaker 1: 26:41

It's hot, I feel hot.

Speaker 2: 26:43

You've just picked, let's say, 400 weeds in the sun. It's so hot, it's so you are covered, your work uniform is covered in sweat. You smell terribly, your fingers are just. It's that weird combination because you've been picking weeds with your fingers that like they are pruning because of all the weed juice, because you know plants, plants have liquid, so somehow, somehow, your fingers are pruned, even though it is so hot, 99 degrees, the humidity is high, the sun is baking down on you, the stench of your body is the combination of body odor and sunscreen and you're just soaked through with your uniform but it doesn't feel good.

Speaker 2: 27:28

And then on the radio someone comes on and says hey, someone's birthday, get over to the staff room. So you hop in your little golf cart, go over to the staff room and in there is a Caravelle ice cream cake. And let me tell you, every time it was someone's birthday it was a tangible gift for me and I, to this day, love Caravelle ice cream cakes, love them, love them. I don't have a preference, really. When people are like, oh, you want to get a cheesecake, or you want to get a chocolate cake, maybe a pie, I'm like well, is Caravelle an option? I don't do that normally with food it's like oh, can we get a Caravelle cake? Is that what we can bring for dessert for the holiday event Because in my mind there is nothing better on the planet than that cake and whoever's birthday it was that day, give me 15 minutes of just cream, sugar and air conditioning. That's amazing. I like I'm just I could cry thinking about it I love that.

Speaker 1: 28:47

I know that feeling all too well. I have never once been like I want an ice cream cake when I felt how you did Ever.

Speaker 2: 28:55

Oh, you have no idea. You have no idea the sensation that first bite. Remember you're in a room full of people that smell terrible.

Speaker 1: 29:04

Yeah, I was going to say it's not just me, it's Rick.

Speaker 2: 29:06

You're with a birthday person, you're with the entire grounds crew. They all smell of last night's alcohol, today's bad decisions and sweat. It doesn't matter. As soon as you bite into that delicious, creamy ice cream cake and they've got the little crunchies on the inside, it's like a layer of crunchies. Oh, it's so good. I love that. It's so good, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 29:30

There is something about that that now today, when you do yard work, I bet you think about there. Better be an ice cream cake inside just waiting for me.

Speaker 2: 29:40

I don't do yard work. Those days are behind me.

Speaker 1: 29:43

You've done yard work. You have trees, you have plants. I've seen your yard. Yeah, but that's like a one and done it's a one and done I go, shove that tree in the ground and make sure that the sprinkler hits it.

Speaker 2: 29:54

I ain't touching that thing ever again.

Speaker 1: 29:55

Right Like that's the long cruise job henceforth. Oh, I love it. I love it. Well, there you go. That's why it meant so much to you, because it was like that reward, it was contextual for something to cool you down. It was that sign of like we're celebrating something momentous and it's a nice relief of everything, all the hard work we put in. This is just a nice little treat and that's really what it's all about. It's really what it's all about.

Speaker 2: 30:22

I've got a couple facts for you. A couple facts for you.

Speaker 1: 30:25

Okay, tangible gifts. It is the least chosen language, I can see that, yeah, yeah, I agree, it's kind of like like what are you going to get me as a coworker as a gift? You know, I'm like. I got to see that. You know why. Would that be anyone's number one in the workplace, totally outside of it, but during?

Speaker 2: 30:42

yeah, even, even the Caravelle ice cream. Here it's a moment on the lips, forever on the hips right, like you know, temporary relief to a problem. I've got to go back out in that fricking sweltering sun and get back to pulling those weeds Like today's not home.

Speaker 1: 30:56

That is true, and you know what's so interesting in the workplace, in corporate world in general companies spend billions, billions with a B with a B, billions on reward programs that give gifts to employees when that is the least chosen language in the workplace. Isn't that interesting? Isn't that really an interesting fact? And you all know we've talked about this before on other episodes Pizza party, stupid, yeah, pizza party. Or I get 20 points and I get to redeem this for a little clicker that's got my company's name on it. That's amazing. I can't wait. Nobody wants that, but all corporations do it. It's so it's so interesting and so so like. Why do they do it? The main reason they do it is because it's easy. It's easy to like have a little store, someone branded stuff on it. There's millions of programs out there you can choose from. It's just simple and easy and they think people like that stuff. But why is a bonus a tangible gift? I think a bonus could be a tangible gift because I get a quarterly bonus.

Speaker 2: 32:00

I actually think this is something interesting.

Speaker 1: 32:03

I think it's different I think there's a difference between a a benefit, which is a bonus if you do well in your job, or time off, which is a benefit of doing your job, and a gift, like I think you've got to separate those two and I think the book talks about it a little bit. It's like those things are benefits. You deserve those things because you're signed up to do your job, to get those things.

Speaker 1: 32:25

But it's not something you're going to feel. You're not going to feel more appreciated if you get a bonus right. I wouldn't, because it's like I did my job. I got the bonus because I hit my targets. I don't feel more appreciated. I just did what I was supposed to do in order to hit this incentive. That's more of a benefit or incentive rather than a gift.

Speaker 2: 32:42

Okay. So I mean what you said upsets me because if B billions are being spent on tangible gifts and it is just a temporary relief, I feel like if, thinking back on acts of words of appreciation, quality time, yeah, and acts of service, the, the experience one gets, the feeling one gets from, if you know the, if the VP of your office sends you a Slack message and says, hey, I just want to reach out and say thank you so much for that report you sent. It really saved me in a meeting today. Like you're going to feel good for the rest of the day. You know, like you're going to feel good If you do that jam sesh, you know pair programming with someone and you just have a really great conversation.

Speaker 2: 33:36

You learn something new. Like you're gonna feel good. It's gonna, it's gonna impact your morale for like a day, if not more. Like they give you a you know your little clicker or the company logo a mug oh, they love those electronic mugs that keep your coffee warm. They love them literally so much. Like straight to garbage for me.

Speaker 1: 33:55

And like I know that there are some people that really appreciate those little tchotchkes, but I am not one, yeah, at all yeah, and it's interesting because, like, going back to your example of the gift you can remember most, no one has really gotten you a good gift in the workplace because, like, okay, if you think about that gift that ice cream cake, right, this, uh, the book does a study and it's like, okay, if you think about that gift, that ice cream cake, right, this, the book does a study and it's like okay, well, if you are going to give these types of rewards, what's at the top? Food is at the top. Like, food is one of the best gifts you can give. If it's a really crappy reward system, give food. You know, pizza party. That's why that's number one, because it's like the top thing is food.

Speaker 1: 34:32

If people are going to receive these crappy incentives, or, apparently, if you're a landscaper, an ice cream cake, which I can totally see that. So, like, food is number one. Number two is gift cards. People love their gift cards. You get a gift card. I know it's terrible, but if you have to, give a crappy gift.

Speaker 1: 34:50

You can do a gift card because at least with the gift card, you're not giving me something that I have to deal with. I can. At least with the gift card, you're not giving me something that I have to deal with I can at least choose what I want to spend it on. So benefits there. People will appreciate food first. Gift card second. The last one that they have is like experiences are one of the top, as you talked about. It's like giving a shared experience. Being like hey, I just am giving you a, let's say, a gift card to go to a restaurant so you and your wife can go have a great dinner, Like that's one of the top, is you're giving them a financial incentive or something to go enjoy, something that would typically cost money or that they would have to make the time to do. So you're kind of giving them the reason to do it. Another reason is like and I guess you know one of the other things that come up on people's top is they're like hey, well, what about longer lunches or leaving early? I think you and I talked about this on one of like if someone does a good job, tell them hey, just take off early today, Like you did so good on that presentation, what a gift.

Speaker 1: 35:42

And I think people debate like, is that a gift or is that benefit? Like, is it benefit from just doing my job well or is this actually for me? And I think it's interesting because that one kind of toes the line, because I think a lot of people would appreciate that. But it's less of a gift, Even though you feel appreciated. It's more of just a benefit for doing well at your job. Most of the time it's not like you going out of the way.

Speaker 1: 36:06

So what are actual tangible gifts? Then you got to ask yourself this what would they be? What would tangible gifts be? It kind of goes back to the one that I got. It's paying attention to what their interests are, what's meaningful to them, what would make them feel special and appreciated and like going out of your way to get them that thing.

Speaker 1: 36:24

So something that sometimes isn't the most easily attainable, it's those are the things that really matter to those people. So, like for me, getting this like book, that was perfectly in the style I liked, the format was awesome in terms of like each of the pages, of how I wrote notes, and it was something that I just really appreciated because, like, they didn't have to spend the time noticing those things, finding something that was similar and then putting in the time plus the financial incentive to like buy that thing for me and then give it to me on my birthday, which I thought was really really cool. So those are the types of gifts that go a really long way for people who do have this love language or this appreciation language as one of their top. Those are the things that make a difference.

Speaker 2: 37:02

Have you ever sent a tangible gift?

Speaker 1: 37:06

Have I sent one. So I would say one thing that sucks for me I'm an awful gift giver. This is not a yes answer, is it? It's a no? It's a no because I am the worst gift giver, like I don't know what. Maybe it's just a me problem. I'm really bad at giving gifts so I kind of choose not to. But obviously for people who have that as a love language in my personal life or as an appreciation language in the workplace, like that's going to suck for them, right.

Speaker 2: 37:42

So my personal life or as an appreciation language in the workplace, like that's gonna suck for them, right? So I need to work on this. As an individual, I'm a pretty decent gift giver, even though I don't really like. So the thing about me is I only like gifts in in irl, right, like if, yeah, I have a very good friend. I have a very, very good friend who I've never actually met in real life, but he sends me the coolest gifts and the thing I love about all, I have one. You can see it. It's back there. It's a. It's a cube. You can't really see it. The plant's covering it up. It is a cube from hellraiser and you have no idea what any of those words, no, but it means a lot to me and that's the thing is, he knows me so well and he knows. Don't Google it, no, no, I'm not Google it.

Speaker 1: 38:18

I'm not, I'm not, maybe I am, I'm not, I am.

Speaker 2: 38:24

Don't Google it.

Speaker 1: 38:27

No, no, I have to use AI for something on this podcast Now. I'm going to look it up right now.

Speaker 2: 38:31

Good Lord, it's just in real time. The soul is leaving my body. He sends me gifts that really tap into the core of surprise and the whimsy of the things I like, and he never it's. He never sends me something I expect, so it's always a really fun surprise and I do the same. I try to do the same back for him, and when I give, I gave you a gift recently, yeah I was actually gonna bring that up and when I give gifts, the big thing is one, I gotta know the person.

Speaker 2: 39:04

I'm not gonna give you a gift that if I don't know you. Like there has to be a meaningful relationship between me and the person in order to give the gift. Two, I have to know, like, if, if we share an adjacent, like, that's really good because chances are I know what you're missing and I know how to fill in that hole. Or option two, which is, I think, like me and you, I know what you like and it's it's fishing, and I I don't know jack, nothing. So I can't just go like, oh, I'm gonna get clark, this, uh, fishing bobble here. I think he'll like this and you'll be like bruce, this is for, like, children.

Speaker 2: 39:39

So instead I look at my life and I say what has brought me comfort, peace and joy as an existing human being, like what is the thing that I, since I've added it into my life, has gotten tangibly better? And I'm thinking about this thing. I'm thinking, well, I don't think Clark would have this and my wife is the same way. So we're constantly like, okay, what do we get for this person that? You know, we don't know jack about fishing, but we know x, y and z, and that's that's how we give gifts. I actually gave both of my last two bosses gifts and I know for a fact they loved them, because I still get to hear about them occasionally and that's the sign of a good gift sent?

Speaker 1: 40:23

absolutely. I was actually going to bring that up when you were thinking of your. Your other example, the one you got me this year for my birthday, we use every day. I'm not going to tell people what it is, because that's between you and me, that's a secret, but it was so good.

Speaker 2: 40:35

I ran my fingers through your hair in the parking lot.

Speaker 1: 40:39

That did happen. Folks, don't let them fool you, don't let them tell you this thing and think it's all words. It's actions too, acts of service. That's what I appreciate. He follows through. He follows through on what he says he's going to do and to do and that's why I appreciate him and I feel more appreciated. That's why I'm still employed, but the gift was awesome, like it's you basically did, and you explained everything that that goes into this appreciation language.

Speaker 1: 41:04

Actually, working in the workplace, it's being thoughtful about what they care, about going out of your way to show you, put thought in, but to make something that's useful for them, that they can get repeated use out of. And you're not just like, oh, yeah, here's, you know, a gift card or yeah, here's 20 points in our reward system, like you are actively thinking about what are they going to. You know, feel appreciated by something that I give them and like that is all that this appreciation language is all about. The worst thing you can do is you can give a bad gift to someone who has this as their top.

Speaker 1: 41:35

In the rare case they have this as their top, if you like, go to a conference and you pick up a bunch of free stuff and you bring it back and you're like, hey, at the conference I got all this cool stuff that you didn't get to go to and I'm just going to give you my leftovers. Like that's one of the worst things possible to do to somebody, and that has happened. Or if it's just generic, like you said, like a mug with the company's name on it, you're like oh, I got two of these, like I'm just going to give one to you. That doesn't do diddly squat to people who have tangible gifts as their appreciation language. It usually will just make it worse, because now you're just giving them crap that they're likely like what am I going to do with this? Like I'm just going to throw this away the second you leave this room because I don't want to have to deal with this extra fluff that you're just dropping and dumping on my desk.

Speaker 2: 42:24

So don't be one of those bad gift givers don't do it, don't do it and it's not worth. I think it is also important to note because I don't like receiving gifts from co-workers, and I've actually told co-workers this, because they've sent me things before like please don't do that again. Like thank you, but I don't like this. Like it wigs me out right like I just don't, I don't want it, I don't like it, so please don't. And I think you should have that conversation with people, because there are other weirdos like me out there that do not like that. And on the corporate side, I'm not getting gift cards either. That's money that could have been just put in my paycheck. Why am?

Speaker 2: 43:01

I having to do this weird extra work to get it translated into a red lobster gift card, when you could have just given me 25 and I could go to a better restaurant, right, like yeah, I just I feel like gifts don't work very well unless you really know the person, and very few people do so. I think like I don't know, I don't know just the bottom of the barrel for me, but when it's when it works well, it's great yeah, agreed.

Speaker 1: 43:28

Yeah, this one's always tough because it's like how do you? And it goes back to our question we're going to answer on the last episode. We're going to do a whole bunch of breaking things down and figuring this out how do you figure out if somebody is, you know, has tangible gifts as one of their top appreciation languages? How do you find that out without giving them like crap that they're not going to care about, like it's going to be really hard, or giving them something? And they're like, hey, that's cool, like you? What if I put a lot of thought into it? You know, I thought you were gonna like it and it just doesn't land. Like that's gonna be a little awkward. It's like oh, I spent like 200 bucks on this thing for bruce and he just doesn't seem to care. Like that would suck.

Speaker 2: 44:06

I think it's really easy actually like I think this is really especially if it's a, if it's a, if it's a peer-to-pe to direct. It's simply hey, you did really great on this. Like you start with a word of appreciation, right, and you go through the whole rigmarole of like you made serious impact with your, your latest PowerPoint. You know, no one else could really come up with a story to the way you told it and it it brought a lot of outcome to the business. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 44:34

I found something I would love to send to you. Is it okay if I send you this as a reward and then they can choose? They can say, oh, that's so thoughtful, thank you, I'd love that. Yeah, I'll send you my address. Or they can say I really appreciate that, but no, I'm good, keep the gift, happy that I was able to help. That's the conversation. It's either a yes or it's a no, but it's there's going to be appreciation either way, because it's the thought paired with the, the position of asking. So, like I do think just ask people if they want to get a gift. Some people just don't give away their addresses to people like it's a big thing these days, people like their privacy, especially if you're remote.

Speaker 1: 45:14

I 100 agree with you and actually now that I'm thinking about it is I've definitely gotten better over the years. Like something I've been doing recently is giving people books, like people coming up with something or they they're talking about something like you know what you might really like. This book like, do you mind if I get you a copy? And I've never been turned down. I've done this three times now in the past year and a half and I haven't been turned out a single time. And then when I get it to them it shows up on their desk or whatever. They seem really appreciative, they're like that was really cool, like it shows that you care, you were listening, you offered something that I would probably be interested in. Now you know I'm going to read it and what I always tell them. Like you know, if you don't want it or like it doesn't hit the mark, think about if you can give to someone else. Like feel free to drop it back off at my desk if you don't want to keep it, or just give it and pass it on to someone else that might find it useful. So I always try to like extend that, to be like I won't feel bad, and I actually think that's part of it is saying hey, I got this for you. You know to your point about finding out if this is a top appreciation language for them. It's like hey, I was thinking about you, I got this for you just because of you know our conversation last week.

Speaker 1: 46:13

I think this would really help with something you were talking about and it's like no hard feelings, if you don't want this, totally cool, just come and bring it back or just give to someone else who you know might find it useful.

Speaker 1: 46:23

That's totally okay with me. So, like re-gifting is fine and I think that helps people like take the pressure off of it, especially like for me, these were managerial things. So it's like I'm a manager giving it to an employee. It's an awkward position for them to be like Ooh, I don't care for this, I'm not a reader like really awkward position for them to be in, but I think by me saying that, I think it just took that off and they're like okay, cool, so this is like no pressure and I can take it if I want, or I can just leave it, and everybody who I've done this to happily receives it and they seem to really enjoy it, because they come back and like, hey, I started reading this, I thought this was really cool, what did you think about this? And I then I knew it hit the mark.

Speaker 2: 46:59

You know, I've talked to these people, you've given the books to, and they told me in confidence they're like this guy just loves burning trees. He just loves cutting down trees and wasting paper. Like I said, I wanted the Kindle version, but no gave me a physical object.

Speaker 1: 47:17

Thanks, clark. He gave me a physical book that had 300 pages, but only 20 were filled out. It was called Corporate Strat and it just ended just like that.

Speaker 2: 47:25

It was really weird. That's a deep cut. That just wasn't it. Let's just take the 20 pages we've written, let's print it as 300 and let's sell it and let's see what happens. Let's see what happens oh we'll create another volume with the rest of the page.

Speaker 1: 47:48

Yes, good call. This is how you test the waters. Is it going to catch enough? Eyes fingers crossed. People just flip through the first few pages. They don't look past 20 because there's nothing there, just blank pages past 20 but hopefully we get like pictures of wiener dogs and ascii art.

Speaker 2: 48:02

You know just like why is every page a picture of a wiener dog and ascii art. What is this? What is this?

Speaker 1: 48:08

that's what I'll say. If you liked what you read, you can subscribe to get the real book in seven years, when it comes out, by paying $19.99 today or give us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. That's all you got to do.

Speaker 2: 48:24

That's it. I love this. I think this is the winning idea of the pod. Thanks, clark, you did it again.

Speaker 1: 48:31

You're 100% welcome. I'm happy to be here. So remember tangible gifts. It is the least chosen language If you have a crappy reward system. People are going to like food first. Gift cards, shared experiences everything else underneath there Really crap. They're just crap. I don't want an umbrella with the company's name on it. I don't want a mug with the company's name on it. First of all, even if Tangible Gifts isn't up there, no one wants those things in general. Like no one wants those things. Why would you ever want those things?

Speaker 2: 48:59

So just don't give those things. It's so stupid to assume. Oh, you know, I have my collection of drinkware in my house. You know what would look great With all of my brownstone mugs? That I have A big old mug that says Big Corp. Meh, that's really going to fit in with the rest of my vibing drinkware decor. So thanks, thanks, big Corp. Thanks for that. Appreciate that Big Corp.

Speaker 1: 49:29

And if you're a manager, Also those.

Speaker 2: 49:30

Invermuggs just die after a year, and what a waste. What a waste of both technology, energy trash Just stop. Stop with the tangible gifts, please, for the love of God, stop the tangible gifts, please.

Speaker 1: 49:47

I agree. Now, if you do have someone who does like gifts, just remember, put some thought into it, notice things about them, things they're interested in, get to know them, and I think you actually said something really important. That is one of our follow on topics, but it tends to be personal, like you can't really do this with an impersonal relationship, like you need to know something about them outside the workplace in order to do this. So you have to notice their interests, you have to ask them questions, you have to be, you know, generally genuinely curious about what they're interested in, and that will help you come up with ideas of what would a meaningful gift look like. But I think you have to do something that you said, bruce, which is so important. It's even if you don't know anything about the box that is part of Hellraiser and you just have to Google it really quick.

Speaker 1: 50:31

Try to think about things that you find useful, that might cross paths with them in the Venn diagram, to be right in the middle of that Venn diagram, to be like these are things that may hit the mark that I also have enjoyed and personally used, hit the mark that I also have enjoyed and personally used.

Speaker 1: 50:43

I think this might be a good option for them and then offer to them. Be like hey, I was thinking about you. There's something that I use all the time that I think you would really like too, based on our conversations, would it be okay if I sent that to you? No pressure, if not, it's just something that I thought would be nice. And if you say it like that, I think most people will be receptive and you'll find out really quick being actually, you know, I'm kind of a minimalist. I don't want more stuff. No offense at all. I just really appreciate the gesture but I'm not interested. And that way you'll know where do they stand with that one on their appreciation languages and you don't have to go through that experience again, you might learn something about that person.

Speaker 2: 51:15

Like, yeah, I'm trying to cut down on waste, really appreciate this. And instead you know, like you might go say, hey, I'm gonna go donate the 20 dollars I was gonna spend on this gift to have a tree planted, uh, in a forest, and you know, thank you for what you've done. Like there are many ways to appreciate if you have to spend. To appreciate, just this is an idea it's a great thought.

Speaker 1: 51:38

I like that awesome. Well, that's tangible gifts, I think I love it.

Speaker 2: 51:42

I think it's great. Think it's great. I think it's good. I think it's a. It's a. This is a good breakdown on the highs and the lows, but I stand by my earlier statement. I don't think anything can compare to the first three. Uh, when it comes to a gift versus actual words of appreciation, actual quality time or an act of service. Yeah, 100% agree.

Speaker 1: 52:05

Yeah, I think this one is especially in the workplace, like outside of the workplace, on a personal level, like I can totally see why this one would stack a little bit higher, because holidays, birthdays, like all those things are very personal and so it totally makes sense why that outside of the workplace? That would be there. But inside the workplace I think you really do have to think about. Is this a gift or a benefit? And I think most people are going to just appreciate the benefit of being like hey, we just really appreciate how hard you work. We're going to give you an out-of-band raise or promotion, or we're going to give you the rest of this Friday off. Just take it off, you don't need to report anything, Just want to have a day.

Speaker 2: 52:47

That's really a benefit, not a gift. So just make that delineation and I think most people actually would appreciate that more than an actual gift. I definitely would Agree. We did it, we did, we did. We have one more left to go, one more, and then we have the afterthoughts, yes, the capstone course where we finish it all up put a nice bow on it and kick it down the street.

Speaker 1: 53:06

Can't wait or push it down the stairs.

Speaker 2: 53:08

You know you're never going to forget. You're never going to forget. That is a true act of service. You're welcome. It is. You're very welcome. You're very welcome. Hey, if you have appreciated this series on appreciation, we would really appreciate it if you would share the pod with your friends, family, neighbors and animals pets that's right, they can listen too. You can always turn on Corporate Strategy on your TV, your HomePod, your Alexa device, whatever the heck it is you have in your house, so the little ears can listen. The cats, the gerbils, the dogs, the snakes Turns out they love corporate strategy too.

Speaker 2: 53:47

They deal with it. So please share it, get those plays up on the pod and, if you feel so inclined, give us a nice review, because that is truly how we get discovered, with no actual marketing budget for this pod.

Speaker 1: 54:01

So please, thank you, you know a review can cross two, well maybe even three, appreciation languages. I'm just saying you give us a word of affirmation, you do an act of service by actually going and leaving the review, and then it's a tangible gift. I get it, we get it on the boards and everybody gets to see it. I look at it all the time. It's really how I value my self-worth. So please give us five stars and look at that. You've got three off the list, right there.

Speaker 2: 54:29

And if you ever see us IRL but you want to know who we are, cause you don't know us, we'll give you a high five, which is, you know, positive touch or whatever the heck the next episode is about. I don't know, I haven't listened to it yet, so we'll get there.

Speaker 1: 54:41

Don't say positive touch, it's physical, appropriate physical touch.

Speaker 2: 54:46

Because I don't want to know what a negative touch is. We're all a bunch of ions floating in a Petri dish and we're just looking for that positive touch. Give me your electron, baby. I want that electron. I want that electron. You think the the the physicist, chemists and scientists who just heard me abuse every single facet of the atom. You're welcome. I don't actually know how any of that stuff works, you're welcome.

Speaker 1: 55:17

That's why we built software, and nothing more than that.

Speaker 2: 55:20

That is hate, Quick shout out. Hey Clark, do you watch? Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

Speaker 1: 55:27

I did. I watched the whole thing. I haven't watched the recent season, though Not there yet.

Speaker 2: 55:32

The recent season is so good so I'm going to shout out Always Sunny. But really I'm going to shout out episode four of this season, which is literally 100% corporate jargon. Really, the entire episode. They just speak incredible speaking corporate jargon the entire time and it's hilarious. So if you enjoy some of the nonsense we've spouted, that episode was very funny. Actually, I think episode three of this season has been one of the best episodes of all time. But I just thought episode four was funny because it's all corporate jargon. The episode literally called like thought leadership. So enjoy, uh, I think that's. Uh, you know, we gotta go herd some cats ourselves. We do so with that.

Speaker 2: 56:17

If you ever want to get in our discord, you want to leave us a review? We can do any of those things. In your show notes there is below ads. There is a link tree. You can click on that and that'll get you access to our Discord. You can hang out and talk with us. You can buy some swag, like coffee mugs that clash with your collection. You can also, if you want to buy us a coffee, give us a little monetary reimbursement, because this is a paid podcast by us. You can do that as well. So we'd appreciate it, and we hope you appreciate it too. But until then, keep circling the wagons. I'm Bruce and I'm Clark and you're on mute. We'll see you next week.