Corporate Strategy
Corporate Strategy
177. Navigating Workplace Pay Disparities
Navigating workplace pay transparency reveals deeper issues with corporate compensation structures that value years of experience over actual performance and results.
• Pay transparency can create uncomfortable situations when high performers discover they're paid similarly to underperforming team members
• Experience-based pay scales often fail to reward actual contribution and value
• Out-of-band pay adjustments may be necessary when structural inequities threaten to drive away top performers
• Performance-based compensation models with significant bonus components create healthier incentive structures
• Managers must be judicious when making offers to ensure pay reflects value, not just years of experience
• Calibrating pay across teams helps identify and address potential equity issues before they become problems
• Young, high-performing employees are often at a disadvantage in negotiating their true worth
Join our Discord community to participate in our new game "Is it AI?" where you can test whether you can still identify AI-generated images, plus access exclusive content and conversations.
Click/Tap HERE for everything Corporate Strategy
Elevator Music by Julian Avila
Promoted by MrSnooze
Don't forget ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ it helps!
No.
Speaker 2:I was going to see how long I'd say anything and then I thought about it. I'm like that's a terrible thing to do on a podcast.
Speaker 1:Burn and pop. You know what. You know what people on podcasts love. They love it. It's silence Poll. Listener poll. How many of you listen to this on like 8x speed? Second listener poll. How many of you listen to this like 8x speed? Second listener poll. How many of you listen to this?
Speaker 2:I want to know yeah, look, maybe do the first one first, but no, no, it's fine. No, no, I like your work, just do it no one listens to this pod anymore.
Speaker 1:No one cares about corporate strategy. The podcast could have been an email on bruce and I'm clark and you're on mute. Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wonder how you doing. I wonder you know I have to get after you for something no, please don't. It's something. It's something you just said. You said no one listened to this podcast, but we just had someone reach out about our favorite thing ever the baby onesie.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, which I, which motivated me to go look at the spread shop. Did you know we had like 10 sales this year, did we really? Yeah, well, the thing is. So here it listener, dear listener. We don't get money from anything sold in the spread shop, so it doesn't notify us when sales happen. Um, it did make me realize, though, like one I would love for us to get, like right now, it's the logo, it's the corporate logo, but like we could, you know, because this is a nonprofit or truly a nonprofit organization.
Speaker 1:If y'all have any funny memes or logos, like if there's an artistic bone at any of your body and you want it on a shirt, we would be happy to like add that to the store and give you credit. You know art by whomever. And if you wanted to list a fun corporate strategy thing on the store, happy to do that. One and two, there are other options for baby onesies and baby beanies and unitards. So if there is an item that you would like the logo on that we don't have listed, I can find it and list it, guarantee it.
Speaker 1:I don't know about the quality of it, but it seems like, for the most part, the, the mug we bought still going strong after 2000 washes. The shirt I have has faded, um, but that's just shirts, right like shirts. So you know, you kind of get what you get, but I feel like the prices aren't bad. So all this is to say we don't profit off it. If you want something to support the pod, do it in the bias of coffee. If you want something for yourself, do it through the spread shop, and if you're missing something, reach out to us through the Discord, which you can get to in the show notes, and we can make any of your dreams come true. It's really easy for us and yeah, Nice sales pitch.
Speaker 2:By the way, I still want the shirt that says hashtag big cack energy. We can do that.
Speaker 1:Make it. You're the AI dude. Go, have the AI make the shirt.
Speaker 2:I've done this whole entire thing just for a little side project I do of like how good is AI at making imagery and like, keeping characters? That's what I thought it was as of like two months ago. It was god awful. It has gotten much, much better with the right prompting. Much better with the right prompting. And you might have to challenge me on this, because I might have to try to make my beloved Big Cac Energy shirt in my graffiti logo with some fun colors. Maybe I'll do it with AI, because I tried something recently and I was blown away.
Speaker 1:Blown away. So here's why I stand by the original statement. Does it make better images? Yes, it does. It doesn't get the fingers wrong anymore. There's a lot of things that AI has fixed that were inherently wrong with it. Question for you Can you still tell if an image is AI instantly by looking at it?
Speaker 2:Ooh, these last ones, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:I am not so sure, do a test in the Discord, do a test. Go find, make some images, find some real images and see if we can guess which ones are AI and which ones are not. New game for the show AI or not. Is it AI? Is it AI?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Yeah, we might have to do this. I might have to look up. I'll make a channel. I'll make a channel. All right, let's do it. We got new game show. People never visit all these channels that we create, so you know, this will be the one thing we do. We do it a single time. We never talk about it again.
Speaker 1:You know what? I'm doing it right now Discord Go in there, play the game, put a picture in there. Is it AI? We'll do it live in the pod, but you do have to let us know if it is or it isn't.
Speaker 2:Otherwise then it's the wicks of everyone's time. I have to make sure that I don't. Can you see the file name in Discord?
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you click into it, and maybe that's the thing, in the file name put AI or don't put AI, and we won't look at it until we guess.
Speaker 2:I like that. Yeah, I'll name the file specifically AI and not AI, and we'll see what you guys come up with.
Speaker 1:Let's do this. I'm ready. I'm ready to be crushed and destroyed.
Speaker 2:It's my life in general.
Speaker 1:I feel like a crushed and destroyed person just every day now. So let's make it happen on the pod too. Let's remove my one safe space.
Speaker 2:If anyone listened to the last episode they would know that is a hundred percent true. I was. I was worried about you. I was about to drive over to your home, knock on your door and just make sure that you were alive.
Speaker 1:You, you might've been surprised.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying those really high ceilings you have are perfect for certain activities. I'm just saying those really high ceilings you have are perfect for certain activities. I'm just saying Trampolines yes, that's exactly what I was talking about Bungee cording, trampolines, rope climbing Ooh home.
Speaker 1:Home. I can't say the words Home operated bungee cord. I want't, you got it. You can't say the words Home operated bungee cord. I want to go. What could go wrong? What could go right?
Speaker 2:You know, this reminds me of a amazing TV show America's Funniest Home Videos. Oh my gosh, that's a relic.
Speaker 1:It is a relic.
Speaker 2:And that's for YouTube.
Speaker 1:I love you killed that show it really did.
Speaker 2:It did, yeah. And now you have like chive tv and all that which still plays at the really crappy restaurants you go to. You don't even need it. Youtube's all you need. People do plenty of stupid stuff on youtube, literally infinite stupidity there's.
Speaker 1:there's more stupidity than you can ever watch in your life on YouTube. Enjoy. That's amazing. It is crazy America's Funniest Home Video. Last week we talked about the Taco Bell. This week we're talking about AFV, right?
Speaker 2:Or AVF. Is it America's Funniest Home?
Speaker 1:Video AFV. Afv. It was Bob Saget who was the second guy.
Speaker 2:The second guy was pretty good too.
Speaker 1:I don't care about the second guy, bob saget was the guy. He's. All I remember was the guy, but like it was fun, he was fine and the fact that I remember his name is not a good indication but like dang, that was a whole. That was literally like a phenomenon. Everyone watched that show. Oh yeah, growing up, and then youtube happened and just dead. You don't need that show anymore, isn't it great? William johnson came in and was like watch me do this every week on YouTube.
Speaker 2:Isn't it just wild to think about times pre-YouTube and pre-internet of how you talked about things. There was no real instant access to niche-related things, right? Instant access to like niche related things, right, you couldn't find specific interest because it was like Nope, everybody watches America's funniest home videos at 7 PM on Thursdays and that's what you talk about for the next week, before the next show comes out.
Speaker 1:Like there was no do you see that video where the dad got hit in the nuts? That was all of them, that was only all of them and they were funny.
Speaker 2:They slept every time, they never got old. But now it's like hey, do you know this niche youtuber that has 1 000, 1.8 000 followers on youtube? And they're like no, there's billions of those people now.
Speaker 1:Hey, have you guys seen this new challenge on tiktok? It's called flatlining. You basically like go dead for a few minutes and then your best friend revives you. It's so cool, cool, you've got to try it out. You've got to see these videos. They're so funny, man, they're legally dead. Should we do that and you revive me? Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2:That'll be the unveiling, the unveiling of our faces. And then it will be. Will Clark survive or will he just die right now?
Speaker 1:You can commune with Slaanesh for a few minutes, and then we'll bring you back to real life. So, should we talk about?
Speaker 2:something.
Speaker 1:No, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing. Okay, vibe check. Vibe check Pinkies up. I'm pinkies up. Pinkies are up. I'm vibe checking.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty good. I'm in the middle of love hearing that I'm in the middle of the move. I love moving sucks. I love the box no, it doesn't much. You're so wrong okay, okay, let me get this right. The process of moving sucks. Being in a brand new environment in the home is the best thing no, moving's great, disagree 100.
Speaker 1:One you need to pack up everything. Like everything you have. You could put it in a box. So, one, there's the evaluation. Like, do I still like this thing? It's true, can I, can I throw it away? I love that process. Two, you get to dust everything. So it's like oh, where I go next it's gonna be a clean, dust-free environment. Three, it's like oh, the decoration possibilities. I've been so constrained in this current environment. I cannot wait to pack all this up and then unpack it in a new, fun, visually interesting way. What is wrong with you? Moving is the best.
Speaker 2:I would move every day if I could. You're a sociopath is what you're telling the people right now. You are insane. I like actually the things you're saying. I can get on board with that. What I don't like is the bend over. Pick up the box, go load it in the truck. It's a free workout. Go back in, go grab another. See, no, no, no Use your knees.
Speaker 2:Destroy me. My body is physically dismantled and then you end up taking something off a wall and then you rip the paint off the wall and you're like gosh, dang it.
Speaker 1:Now I got to use the paint. You're going to have the whole house repainted before you sell it. It comes with territory. And secondly, your body is a temple and you take much better care of yours than I take care of mine. You can lift dog. You can lift real good. I can't lift at all and I love it. I love to lift.
Speaker 2:Let me lift something I'm going to go lift something after this podcast. You're hired. You can come over here, I'll have you lift something for me.
Speaker 1:I got the job. I'm quitting my real job. I'm going to help Clark move.
Speaker 2:This is a bad decision on your part because this is like a couple day thing, so don't put your job for this job, you know.
Speaker 1:Dang Dang. I was really looking forward to quitting my job. I was so excited too. Well, I mean, you still can. No, the market's terrible right now. I got nowhere to go. I got nowhere to go. I got no one to love me.
Speaker 2:I actually don't know anything about the job market right now. Is that good or bad?
Speaker 1:It's terrible. It's probably the worst it's been in our lifetime. You know, just a good sign of the times. Just in general, yeah, yeah, especially for just like anything that could possibly be done by an ai, or like helped by an ai. Good luck. Good luck finding a job, bud.
Speaker 2:good luck yeah, it's true, because I think all the companies are like freezing hiring, because they're like, well, what if we just leverage ai to make it that much better and maybe we don't need to hire these more, these, these additional people?
Speaker 1:I got someone who reached out to me on LinkedIn offering me a VP role for half of what I make today holy cow, that's wild yeah so take the title dude.
Speaker 1:Take the title. I mean, there is part of me that one I care so much more about title than pay. It's not even a question, true, you have said. But the second half of that is is it more work than I'm doing today? And the answer is probably yes. So nah, I'm not gonna do more work for less, but I will do the same amount of work for better title for less money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hear that.
Speaker 1:That's my formula. So I mean, you know, consider this me on the market.
Speaker 2:Is this you saying that you're open to?
Speaker 1:work? No, because unfortunately I have to get to either an exit or an acquisition in my current role. Otherwise I'd be walking away from just free money. I'm hanging out. But the second my golden handcuffs are unlocked and I can do that prison walk free.
Speaker 1:Well, firstly, I'm taking a year off work. I'm putting this out here, right here, right now I'm taking a year off of work period. Yeah, I need it. I'm so excited for it. I can't wait and I hope in that year things get better, because if they get worse, I'm just screwed either way and I think I'm going to go be a FedEx delivery man. Like I think that's what I'm going to do. I know a guy who's a FedEx delivery person and he said it's the worst thing in the world. I challenge him to come do my job. Fair enough, because whatever the physical strain is, I guarantee you it cannot complete with the mental anguish I deal with from the moment I open my eyes in the morning to the moment I close my eyes when I go to sleep. So you know, bet I would love to work. Having done physical labor before, I would love to go back to a physical labor job and not use my brain anymore. It just sounds magical to me.
Speaker 2:There is something rewarding about like doing physical, like I'm doing a bunch of house projects while we're moving because we're moving stuff, and then I'm like, oh, I should probably fix this before someone should buy it. And there's something so rewarding about like getting your hands dirty cutting up some wood. Yeah, stick your hands together using a drill and you're just like well, I did that. I did that physical thing right there, not just all that computer stuff that I always do.
Speaker 1:I have a physical thing to be proud of, that I did you know, clark, if you ever wanted to like start a home building business with me, I would love to do that with you. We could do that together, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we've got the skills. I've done showers, I can do drywall. I've done a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1:You know my wife knows all the decorative, uh, artisanal wall, smooth Like she's master. So I feel like between you, me and our spouses we could just start building homes, and I mean just pocketing that money to the moon out there to the moon. New podcast idea home strategy home on the range. Oh, home on the range go.
Speaker 2:Yes, there it is. That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:How two non-brothers went and started their own home building business Home on the Range.
Speaker 2:The home that we've been meaning to.
Speaker 1:Oh, they left their city-slicking corporate jobs to go build homes. Look at them now they're still miserable.
Speaker 2:Turns out, it didn't matter whether they were working the corporate jobs or for themselves. They still hate it.
Speaker 1:They just hate working because they're millennials. Yeah, I think this sounds like a great idea.
Speaker 2:I'm like you know Honestly, when you say things like in that tone of voice and that accent, I'm on board. I don't even care what it is. I heard nothing but positivity.
Speaker 1:It's a curse really, like I do have that hype factor about me and it gets people excited. And then they're like, oh, I just bought into the most terrible, awful idea. Let's, let's take this offline, let's double click into it later and uh.
Speaker 2:I have a plan.
Speaker 1:We can start building some homes yeah.
Speaker 2:Um follow up conversation for us to talk about this Good.
Speaker 1:Good, good, let's circle back Deep the conversation. I think we need more stakeholders at the table. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, yeah, um building, homes All right, cool, all right, we'll see.
Speaker 1:Okay, what do you got? What do you got for a topic?
Speaker 2:today I've got a problem. Oh, I've got a situation that I thought I was doing the right thing.
Speaker 1:Oh no, have I told you not to do this before?
Speaker 2:No, no Okay good. This is actually something we talk about and we have talked about many times, and I think we both agree that it should be an okay thing to do. Okay, but I did something and I did it and it's not turning out the way I was hoping for it to turn out.
Speaker 1:Do we need to call HR?
Speaker 2:There's no HR calling. Okay, I think there's a big morale thing. Oh no, okay, all right, let me dish Let me lay it on you. Let me lay it on you, the situation. So you and I, theoretically, are on the same page in this.
Speaker 2:I'll see where you stand, pay visibility and understanding what you're making, what your peers are making Generally. You're on board with that, right I am. Pay shouldn't be a thing that's hidden, you agree? Agreed, we also both agree that most corporations hide that on purpose because it creates weird relationships between people and when they see pay disparity and they think they do more than somebody, it creates a weird situation. So most corporations just don't talk about pay and they don't let you disclose your pay to others. They tell you you probably shouldn't. So nobody talks about pay, even though you should.
Speaker 2:So I am, I would say, a more senior manager. I have managers underneath me who also have people underneath that and I thought, you know, raises were going around. We did some cool stuff in my company where we re-leveled certain pay grades so that they were more competitive in the market. We wanted to keep those people on A good thing. So, yeah, it's a great thing. I think the company is doing the right thing. I'm happy they're evaluating and looking at the market so we can retain top talent. So I said, okay, great, I'm going to share the pay bumps with my more senior managers so they can share it with their people. I thought that was a great idea.
Speaker 1:Why is it not?
Speaker 2:Until I realized that my company compensates people with more years of experience more than value, and it created a weird situation with a younger member of my team who's awesome they do a great job. They're younger. And then they realized the person that they manage on their team is not far away from their pay and, for whatever reason, it didn't click in my head they aren't aware of that, because I just assumed they were already aware.
Speaker 1:And I don't know why. I know, yeah. Why didn't a manager know what their direct was earning? That's weird.
Speaker 2:I think it was because somebody transferred teams and I just assumed that they got the documentation on their team and they didn't, and so it created a weird situation. I wouldn't want that. They're like, hey, I want to talk to you about something and they're like this member on our team they're struggling like almost to a pip, but they have 20 years of experience and I have eight and I manage that and I'm almost getting paid the same amount that they are that doesn't.
Speaker 2:That doesn't feel right and I was like you're right, it doesn't feel right, but the way the company works and our pay scale works is there's a range of bottom and a top and, depending on years of experience, you can get your way to be paid at the top of their tier and since your years of experience are lower, you're in the more lower half of your tier, meaning you're very, very close. And it was just an awkward. Awkward situation because I was like I totally overlooked that when I sent the numbers and I didn't even think to like check hey, do you know how much your team is getting paid and so it just created a super weird situation. Now I'm questioning did I do the right thing, or am I going to lose this person because they're so great?
Speaker 1:You are in your 30s. I'm not going to dox you, but you're in your 30s. Is this person you're talking to also in their 30s? They're a little younger, in their 20s, okay, I mean. So one. I'm just going to blanket statement this screw your company's payment plan, right? Like experience does not matter, it is all about action. And like, screw that. That's one thing I'm very grateful for is I do feel like, uh, I'm in an org where we pay very much based on not experience but ability. Like if you, if you get to the interview and you show us you can do what you say you want to do, then like we're going to consider paying you what you think you're worth.
Speaker 1:Um, see, when I've had these conversations before with people, I actually had a conversation with one of my friends and coworkers a little while back and they told me how much they made and they're like well, how much do you make? And I'm like you don't want to know? And they're like is it double? And I said more than. And they're like that's crazy. And I said yes, but how long have I been doing this job? And I didn't say like this job, like how long have I been in this industry, which is 15 years, like they've been here for two, coming on three, and I said could you do my job? No, that's why and I said, like I didn't linearly move my way here there were big jumps along the way when I was able to execute certain things that other people couldn't right.
Speaker 1:Like part of what I do is, you know, messaging. It is being able to tell a very compact, tight story that motivates sales. You said earlier, though I tell you things you get excited Like that's my ability. I honed that craft. I use that craft for good. That craft generates money for my company.
Speaker 1:Not a lot of people can do what I do, hence why the value is what I am, and I'm able to explain that to them. And then by the end of it they're like, yeah, no, I totally get it. And now they have a goal. They know how they can get to where I am in time, and they could probably do it faster than I can, because I spent seven years wasting my life in software engineering, which got me nothing. In the span of things. Had I gone to sales and marketing much earlier, I'd be making even more and I'd be even further in my career. So that's how I had that conversation with them.
Speaker 1:But because your company is stupid, you can't have that conversation with them. But because your company is stupid, you can't have that conversation without besmirching your company, and that's what I would do. I would say this place sucks. They don't appreciate talent and skill. This is not a you and me problem, this is a corporate problem.
Speaker 1:And if you don't like it, unfortunately, I think your best effort is to seek employment elsewhere where you can get paid what you deserve, because they're not going to fix it for you. And you need to be very upfront and clear with them about this, because if you lead them on, they're going to resent you for it, the same way I've resented previous bosses that you know about at Big Corp that did that to me. Tell me oh, don't worry, bruce, next year you're going to get it. And then it's like no, we're going to give it to that 60-year-old guy with the cane over there on the inhaler because he's been here longer than you, even though you do more work than he does. Sorry, that's just the way it works and that's how you learn to hate your boss, hate your company and become jaded, like me. So I think you need to have a very honest conversation about the.
Speaker 2:And I would say, like you said in my 30s, not going to dox me, but I'm younger for my role.
Speaker 1:You're younger.
Speaker 2:And what I would say is my company has invested in promoting me because of the work that I do, and so they've figured out a way to say we're just going to keep promoting you Because that's the way we're going to get him into more money and that's the way he's going to get paid. And this person we've done the same. You know they've been promoted twice now and so, like we're trying to do the same thing. But it is tough because, like HR, when they're bringing people on board, they work within a salary grade, a floor and a ceiling. And I told I do get.
Speaker 2:There is merit to saying, when you're hiring somebody, you don't know how good they are, and so you base it off years of experience and you're saying, hey, listen, this person's got 15 years of experience doing what we want them to do. They interviewed. Well, you want to hire them. We should pay them more than someone who is younger in their career. That we don't know, Like they're not tested and tried. And we don't know We're're not tested and tried and we don't we're taking a bet to know if they're going to be good or not, and so I get it, Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Challenge. You should catch that in the interview process. If not, you're not doing good interviews. And, like, I will elaborate on that. If you look at their resume and they say I drove 400% growth on our social media platform when I left the company, we had over 3 million followers on Instagram. We had 2 million followers on Facebook and I'm the one who led that growth, you better believe.
Speaker 1:The first question I'm asking them on that call is hey, breakdown. I want to know exactly how you did this and did you do it by yourself or did you do it in a team? And depending on how they answer, that question is going to tell me whether or not they are worth whatever they're asking for. Like, I don't care about the experience. If you know how to do that, that's way more important than any amount of time you spent in the role not learning how to do things right, because you could be learning how to do things wrong right. That was me in dev. I wasn't getting better in my time there. I was getting worse. I was learning bad habits, like I wasn't improving. If I was still in dev today, I'd probably be making less money uh, doing worse work, because time does not equal quality Time just equals time the ability to go off and actually execute, because you either have the drive or the energy or the know-how. That's what you're paying for, and you should be able to suss that out through good questions and interviewing.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's also like I was thinking about it a little bit. I'm like is this the person's fault for just not knowing their worth when they accepted the role versus someone who's more senior? They can kind of suss that out to be like I'm not going to accept your low offer. I've been doing this for 15 years. I need to have a higher offer, and they negotiated into where they are. Someone who's more junior doesn't necessarily know how much they're worth, and so it kind of puts them as a disadvantage. And that's this person. It's like they've been promoted twice to where they are.
Speaker 2:They now manage people that are older than them and have much more experience, but they do great work and they're doing an awesome job, and so it's kind of on them to be like you didn't negotiate well for what you were worth and so we gave you an offer and you accepted the offer, and that also is on the corporation. You should pay them what they're worth ideally up front, but also I think HR, unfortunately, and BidCorp they're worth ideally up front, but also I think HR, unfortunately in big core they're saying how can we get them with the lowest possible offer? And then it's up to the manager to kind of fight for the right amount, and so it's a little bit on me as the manager, or not fighting for more money, to be like listen, they're probably going to accept this offer. We need to give them more because they're great, they're going to be a front flight risk in a year?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's so interesting. I'm like going back and forth in my head. I'm like, was this on me, was it on them? And how do I remediate it? And that's the hardest part.
Speaker 1:You need to go to your boss or HR ASAP and say this person's a flight risk and then tell them why.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then be like hey, we got to find a way to get the hand raises, you got to make it right, and the faster you do it, the better they will feel about it.
Speaker 1:They'll be like wow, Clark really cares about me and wants me to stay here because he went and did this thing for me. Like, you will earn so many points if you're able to pull that off. Yeah, because it's the right thing to do for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it's weird too, because you can't like take away pay from somebody. So even if this person's going on a tip, it's like you can never take away from their salary. But honestly, like that, I'm thinking. I've been thinking about that more and I'm like, well, what if it worked the other way? What if it's performance based and if you don't perform well, your salary starts getting cut every year rather than going up. Like that's honestly really interesting.
Speaker 1:That is technically how I get paid, because 30% of my total income comes from my bonus and when I do well and I hit my goals, I get 100%. Unfortunately, some of my bonus is also tied to the performance of the company, which is completely out of my control. But you know, that is what it is. So when if my team or if I don't do well during a quarter, we feel the sting in our paycheck right, it's like I'm not going to get that full bonus payout, which hurts, but it does motivate you to do better next quarter, like it is a great mechanism for that.
Speaker 1:I do think more people should be on a OTE system on target earnings versus just flat. Here's your full salary, because that is how you get to your PIP situation. You would have found that out a lot sooner had they been on a bonus structure where it's like, yeah, you have not hit your goals for the last year, you've missed your entire, you've missed 30% of your paycheck, which saves the company money and it does not reward poor performance, but it certainly beats the situation of well, I'm going to get paid, no matter what. I can just hang out here and pull a salary. You know, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like a pro for the worker, because this person that's not performing well, they're getting paid really well for their position, even though they're not performing perfectly, and so, like it is interesting, it's like they can kind of just float in this limbo state and it's up to us like likely, you know, a pip that's coming soon.
Speaker 2:And it's an interesting situation because I'm just like thinking about how you handle this, how you make it right, how you get somebody to perform and, to your point, I think the incentive structure, especially with bonuses, are levers that the company can pull to keep people motivated, because at the end of the day, that impacts what they get paid, because we do the whole performance. Like it's based on, you know, if you meet or exceeds expectations, like you actually get more of a bonus if you exceed expectations. But it's not like your OTE situation where it's very much like number-based and it's easy for you to understand. These are my goals and this is how I hit them. For us it's like it's not that black and white and we need to do a better job as a company to make that black and white so they can try to hit the exceeds or whatever the highest one. I can't even remember what the highest rating is, but that would get them more money at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:And that will keep them more motivated.
Speaker 1:It definitely seems like a little bit of your company is kind of operating in a legacy corporate model, because even when I left big corp they were doing this, this whole bonus structure, this goal oriented structure, and like it did motivate me to do the things that I said I was going to do because I wanted my bonus, did motivate me to do the things that I said I was going to do because I wanted my bonus. I don't think this exactly helps in your case because there's still the individual who is a top performer that is not getting paid what they're valued at. But that just sounds like a real, like an honest to goodness emergency out of band, either promotion or pay bump, which is not difficult to do, especially when there's reasonable cause for it. Right, Like you go to HR, you go to your boss and say, look, they have a direct report that makes almost as much as they do the direct report's on a PIP. This is creating a demoralizing situation for them. I don't want them to be at flight risk. We need them to stay at this company.
Speaker 1:I think like to remedy the situation, we just need to do an out of band promotion and uh, it'll. It'll just solve all of this, as opposed to making them wait and potentially, you know, hurting the situation in the case that we lose them Right, Like just got to lay it out crystal clear. Put the onus on HR and your boss to make it happen, but like I do feel like this is a pretty easy solve. Uh, and also in the future, moving forward, like get your bands right, man, Get your pay bands right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been an interesting learning, but I think to your point, that is the right thing to do and I've been fortunate enough that I've had managers in the past even managers now that I got out of band raises because they wanted to ensure that I was not a flat risk and they probably looked they didn't tell me this, but they probably looked across the board and been like holy cow, he's the same level as these people and they have paid this much. Like we got to figure out how to get them you know the right pay. And it was funny, even in depth, like I transferred to a new team and he literally pulled me aside, like our very first one. When he's like, do you know how little you're getting paid compared to people who do far less work than you?
Speaker 1:And I'm like no, I have no idea.
Speaker 2:And he's like I'm immediately giving you a 20% raise. He's like this is crazy, the amount you're getting paid compared to these other people, and so like that's what a good manager should do, and I think you're absolutely right. So I think that's my duty is to now fight for that and make it right make it right.
Speaker 1:It is your duty. I'm very curious what will happen because, like this, this can help you inform decisions about your own role in the company moving forward right, because you want them to do this for you, if you ever found yourself in this situation. And it just like it's, it's a mirror for corporate culture and what your business thinks about the individual contributors that work there. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got to be more judicious as a manager. I'm putting on my manager health. I have to be more judicious on when hiring somebody, when we send them an offer, making sure you've considered those things and say okay, they're young but their results speak for themselves.
Speaker 2:And look across your team. Do a little calibration, as we like to call it in the corporate world. Do a little calibration and see where everybody stands. Be okay, well, this person's on a pip, they have more experience, but this person seems awesome. We should pay them what we think they're worth.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's the right thing to do yeah, thank you for talking to us of course happy to help.
Speaker 1:It's not an easy anytime there's anytime it's pay. It's not easy and, and you know, for me it's easy because I can rationalize it to other people. So if they feel I don't tell people what I make, but I do tell them, you know, in the range in adjacency to their own one, because I don't actually know how much I make, it's weird, right, like because of my bonus structure I make a lot but it's not crystal clear to me ever and I don't want to do the math like I literally have to do math to how much I get paid. So it's just easier to use like generic terms. But I have no problem talking about it with anybody because I think I can always rationalize why I do get paid what I do and I think it's a reasonable amount for what I do.
Speaker 1:So value drives unless I take that job for the vp role at that other company for half the price.
Speaker 2:So you know I say you do it. You you know what? After this whole conversation, yeah, why not?
Speaker 1:Why not? You will show up to my house and I'll be doing something from the ceiling, don't you jump.
Speaker 2:Don't you jump. Thank you for this conversation. You have helped somebody. You can no longer leave this world.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess, when you put it that way, I guess, when you put it that way, I'll hang out for a couple of weeks, just a couple. We'll see how next week.
Speaker 2:Just get a couple more episodes of corporate strategy and even though the last one was the last one the last one was well, the last four were the last one, so now this might be the last one, but we actually know this will not be the last one, cause we have one more episode next week.
Speaker 1:That is a guest episode, that's true excited for oh, it can't be the last one we got ta.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we gotta do that yeah you're right, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, no bungee cord in the living room till three weeks from now. It's gonna be so much fun. I'm gonna just bounce around all day. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. I can't. Why do we did it. I did it again in 36 minutes, no less. Look at that. Efficient, efficient.
Speaker 2:Nice. Do we have anything else? Do we have memes? I think you're up for memes.
Speaker 1:No, we don't have memes. No one plays games anymore. No one listens to the pod, no one plays games. It's sad.
Speaker 2:We got a meme in the corporate memes, but we didn't get a meme in the what do you meme.
Speaker 1:Corporate memes.
Speaker 2:You don't even know our channels anymore. You're adding these channels. I know our channels. You don't even know our channels anymore.
Speaker 1:You're adding these channels. I know our channels. It's just not relevant to the previous episode.
Speaker 2:But it is a funny meme. It is a very funny meme. It is a funny meme, but I agree it's not relevant.
Speaker 1:That's the problem. You know what. If you want to play, if you want to play the game what do you mean? Which we, which we described, means our mouth parts you got to join the discord. It's super easy Go to the show notes link tree, click, join discord and then, in the what do you mean channel, you will post a meme of your own creation that has something to do with something we said in a previous episode, and then one of us is forced to explain it with our mouth parts on pod, because that's the most interesting thing you can do on pods.
Speaker 1:We also have a channel called it Is it me or is it corporate, and in that channel you can do forward, slash, confess and type in whatever the heck you want, and it will completely anonymize the confession and then we will read it out loud and determine whether or not it was in fact you or it was in fact corporate. And we never, we never waver. It's factual, it's truthful, trust me. Try it out, do it for the next episode, it's fine. Plus, we have a new channel called is it ai, where you can post a picture and we need to figure out if it's ai or not. Please put ai in the file name. If it is, those are our games that we can't play, because we don't have anything to play with.
Speaker 2:We got to reinvigorate the channels. We got to bring them back.
Speaker 1:Discord calls for aid. Clark, you need to get in there and start posting. I want 10 posts a day, Otherwise you're not getting your bonus 10 posts a day, oh my God. You're not getting your bonus.
Speaker 2:How much, what percentage, what percentage of my bonus?
Speaker 1:Your bonus is 30% of your paycheck.
Speaker 2:Ooh.
Speaker 1:You better get 10 posts a day, you better get on it. This is motivation, quality posting.
Speaker 2:Not in shitification posting. No, I want quality posts If you don't know what to do you do it Go back and listen to our last episode. Was it the last episode?
Speaker 1:two was last episode if we spent the first 20 minutes talking about in shitification a real thing, by the way, not something that we just made up. It's a real horrible thing that's happening all around us all around, everywhere, every day, every day, everywhere all the time I saw I mean like between last episode and this one, I saw it happen like geez, it's just, it's just happening.
Speaker 2:I can't escape it, you can't. Terrible, it's a fly cannot stop it.
Speaker 1:I wish, I wish life was a wave and I had a surfboard. But I think in in this analogy, a surfboard is a billion dollars. So you know, I think that's, that's how you ride the wave of life. So I agree, unfortunately, you got anything else, clark.
Speaker 2:No, that's it Like share. Subscribe.
Speaker 1:It's really easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ring the bell. Even if you don't like somebody, share this with them. Make the corporate world a better place. We did a whole series, a whole series on how you appreciate other people in the workplace, even if you don't like their work or they don't do a thing you can find ways to still appreciate them and hopefully motivate them to help you and feel appreciated in the workplace.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. I love that series. If you haven't listened to it in its entirety, you are missing out. It's the most research and serious we've ever been and I feel like there's like it improved my life. It can improve your life. In addition to that, in the link tree you'll also find that we have a feet pics subscription service, so if you want to see the bottoms of my or Clark's feet, you can sign up. It is $5 a month and we upload multiple feet pics per week, so do sign up for that if you want to see these piggly wigglies unsocked.
Speaker 2:Don't you ever say those words around me again.
Speaker 1:We've also unveiled our new virtual companion program, craig Chatbot. If you would like to date a Craig, we have captured his essence and if you go in the link tree, you click date a Craig his essence and if you go in the link tree, you click data craig and you can have a personal relationship with our very own podcast recorder. Craig keeps the podcast on track, he's our number one producer and now he can be your lover sign up ten dollars a month oh ten ten, five for feet, ten for craig you know I can say it's worth it.
Speaker 2:He's consistent, he's reliable and he's just a good. He will record your conversations. He will record your conversation and you can download a transcript after.
Speaker 1:Have you seen how many people are just in absolute shambles with GPT-5 and how their AI boyfriends, girlfriends and husbands have basically effectively died?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:This is the state we're in Clark. This is the state we are in.
Speaker 2:I don't like this corner of the internet. I'm just going to stay away from this corner of the internet.
Speaker 1:It's not a corner, my friend. I guarantee you know someone who is dating a chatbot.
Speaker 2:I guarantee you? Please tell me now.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you now it is like a catastrophe has happened. It is like Order 66 and the Jedi have all been slain. What OpenAI has done has effectively killed just millions of chatboyfriends and girlfriends that these people relied on, and it is there in shambles.
Speaker 2:That is incredibly terrible news.
Speaker 1:OpenAI has since realized this mistake with their latest engine, because now the bot's like I think you need therapy, I think you should get help. I am not a real person, please stop treating me as such. So they're just devastated by this, and OpenAI has been like well in order to keep the boyfriend-girlfriends. This would cost us billions of additional dollars a year in server fees, so I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2:They did the responsible thing.
Speaker 1:They did the responsible thing by tuning it back and saying I am not your companion, but in doing so they have just lit a fire.
Speaker 2:The chatbots call for aid in doing so.
Speaker 1:they have just lit a fire, Wow.
Speaker 2:The chatbots call for aid. Hey, raise your pickaxe, raise your pitchfork, raise whatever weapon you got and bring back the AI. Boyfriends and girlfriends.
Speaker 1:Let's go burn down a data center. Let's go For the chatbots.
Speaker 2:For the chatbots. For the chatbots, let's go on strike.
Speaker 1:That's, that's what's going on right now. So, uh, guarantee you. Guarantee you, you know someone, there's probably a listener and listen like I'm not insulting you. If this is, if this feels like I'm insulting you, I'm not insulting you. You live your life, you do your thing. It's not my thing. I hate ai with every fiber of my being. So why would I, why would I ever talk to a chatbot, let alone give it my affection or attention? I don't even like it for its general use case. So I'm just an AI racist. I hate it. I'm living up to my own standards here. But no shame on you. You go burn down that open AI data center. I support you. Live your dream. Burn it down. I don't know that. I'll come with you. Take pics.
Speaker 2:But if you subscribe to our fee pic service, I'll come with you.
Speaker 1:If you subscribe for $5 a month, we will join you and we will help you burn down the data centers.
Speaker 2:You're not getting a sneak peek, though that comes with a subscription only.
Speaker 1:Oh well, of course. Of course. Why buy the cow when the milk is free? In this case, the milk is our test.
Speaker 2:We got to quit this podcast. Why are we still here? Why are we doing this?
Speaker 1:We had a really tight 36 minutes and I thought how could I ruin this? How could I just absolutely destroy all of the goodwill we built? We have to undo this and we have to undo it in the worst way possible. You could make good money selling feet pics online, clark.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying like, if you want to do it, for corporate strategy?
Speaker 1:we could, your feet, those hairy little gremlins. How do you know they're hairy For corporate strategy? We could your feet, those hairy little gremlins.
Speaker 2:How do you know they're hairy?
Speaker 1:Oh, I know, Subscribe and you'll find out. You get it Now. You get it now, you get it. My um, my brother knows someone who got offered on a live stream to sell their socks for like 160 dollars. Oh my god, he didn't do it. Can you believe that that's wild? If someone was like hey bruce, if you send me your socks for 160 dollars, I'll pay you 160 dollars, I'd be like that covers the pod for a year. Where do you want the socks? I will wear them for you, I will sweat in them, I will run a mile in these socks and then sell them to you and we will go ad free for a year. So just throwing that out there. If you want it, I will do that for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, forget, buy me a coffee, just buy my socks, then we'll go ad free guys, come on, it's not that hard. It's not that hard. It's really not just give us your money for weird stuff like socks and feet pics. I mean, this is the internet. This is the internet we live in today. It used to be nice little you know wikipedia pages. It used to be fun, little geo cities, websites about local bands. It used to be the crunch wrap supreme for 99 cents. And look at us now. Look at what capitalism has done to all of us. Worst, isn't it great it's so. You see the wrinkles under my eyes like do you see how old I am?
Speaker 2:I wasn am.
Speaker 1:I wasn't this old a year ago. Just telling you that right now it's happening quick. This decade the 20s, the roaring 20s is aging me more than anything in my life has ever aged me. So just you know.
Speaker 2:Keep that in mind, just keep that in mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, on that note, thanks for listening to Corporate Strategy Podcast. It could have been an Just keep that in mind, because this is a word of mouth podcast. Obviously we use pseudonyms because we don't want our real identities out there, so we can't market things through our traditional means. So please share with others If you think it's valuable. Share an episode you like. If you like the appreciation series, send that to them. That's a really good series. It's going to make everyone's life better if they follow it in the workplace. So share that around. Don't be embarrassed because we don't talk about feet in that one. I don't think. And uh, we appreciate you for doing it and we just appreciate you for listening. As always, thanks per usual. This could have been an email. I could have put it in confluence, but I didn't. Uh, I'm Bruce and I'm Luke and you're on mute. We'll see you next week.
