SPEAKER_02: 0:02

Hey Clark.

SPEAKER_03: 0:05

Hey Bruce. I'm gonna do it. Don't no, don't, don't put your eyes in that. It's a bad idea. Don't do it. Don't do it. Let's do it. You are so close. You're gonna go blind. You are gonna go blind if you do that. It's a terrible It's hard on the edge. It's right on the edge. Okay, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna paint the picture for everybody right now. Bruce is right now, it is it is golden hour, and sun is coming through his window on his face. He has closed his blinds, but there's one strand of light that is going across his face, and he is slowly going down and kneeling down to try to get it to go right over his eyes. He looks like that superhero. Who's that superhero? I don't even know. Who's that superhero with the laser eyes?

SPEAKER_00: 0:50

Superman?

SPEAKER_03: 0:52

No, no, no. No, he wears the glasses. Cyclops. Cyclops, that's who it's like. Cyclops. Dude, it's a he's a mutant. He ain't no superhero. He's a mutant. No, but if if you put that over your eyes, you're gonna be cyclops. That's exactly what you'd look like. And I'm pretty sure you're gonna burn the retina.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08

You know, uh Cyclops is one Cyclops is probably my favorite X-Man. Um you're not you're not a Marvel, are you? You don't even know what Marvel is. No. Uh though I don't know. One of the latest trailers for Avengers Doomsday, which will probably be an awful movie, uh, had Cyclops doing his full freaking I beam blast, and I literally screamed just let's go!

SPEAKER_03: 1:35

Oh, you know, that was well, you almost you can become him. I think if you put your eyes right in that thing across your face, you will look like him.

SPEAKER_01: 1:45

I feel like of all the Marvel superheroes and mutants, I could probably cosplay Cyclops the best. Like if I had to dress up as one, like if I had the visor on, it's like put the visor on, and then we'll get you in like a latex suit, because that's what he has, right?

SPEAKER_03: 2:03

Latex suit.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04

You see, I mean, yeah, it's kind of I mean, he's kind of got that like fandex blue with a yellow belt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You look great, you would look really good. I think you can pull it off. I think so. I think of all the marvels, that's me. I'm Cyclops. Well, thank you for the best compliment I ever received. No, but I want to hear now in my life. I was at Publix getting a pub sub as a Floridian does. And I go up to the sub counter and I'm like, hey, give me an Italian. And the guy looks at me and he's like, What's up, Peter Parker? And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you just made my life, and I felt so good. I felt so good. That is awesome. I love that I love that for you. Yeah, I love that for me too. It was great. I nearly cried.

SPEAKER_03: 2:48

You know, now I gotta tell you uh a celebrity look-like situation here. I was on the plane. I was I was on a plane, on an airplane. I think I think my wife's what's that? Never heard of it. I know, right? I think my wife was with me for this. But somebody came up to me and they're like, Do you play tennis? And I'm like, No. Yeah, like if you put a headband on, you would be Roger Federer. And I'm like, Yeah, I was just gonna say, yeah, yeah. And they're like, I don't, I don't see it, but okay. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's it's your hair. It is your hair. That's what it is. I think it's your hair and your nose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, big nose, long hair, dark features. I should wear a headband and be Roger Federer.

SPEAKER_01: 3:26

You should. You could be Roger Federer, I'll be Cyclops, and we'll be uh a weird tennis X-Men combo.

SPEAKER_03: 3:36

He was probably in like a tennis video game. Yeah, we could do it. We can make this happen. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, well, thank you for not burning your retinas out on camera. That would have been at least save burning your retinas out for when we actually do live podcasts one of these days. Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01: 3:52

Of course, of course. Um don't don't don't give it all away though, Clark. Don't give them the don't give them the scoop before the announcement. That's marketing 101. You gotta say the announcements for the big live.

SPEAKER_03: 4:03

Maybe maybe they don't know what's gonna be. They don't know what's gonna happen. Maybe we'll do a live show someday. We can't continue this right now with these beams on your face. Now there's two. You're not safe. Like, I've gotta like my gosh, do not open your eyes. You gotta do something about this.

SPEAKER_01: 4:21

I want to get my eyes between the two beams. Is that possible? Can I do that? Hold on up. Can I like please don't?

SPEAKER_04: 4:28

This is so dangerous.

SPEAKER_00: 4:32

Oh my gosh, I'm stuck. My eyes are stuck between two blinding beams of light. If I move up, if I move down.

SPEAKER_03: 4:41

Do not do not move up or down.

SPEAKER_01: 4:43

You will burn your retinas out. I'm actually terrified right now. I've never been so on edge in my life.

SPEAKER_00: 4:50

It's gotta be hot.

SPEAKER_01: 4:51

Why sneeze? Oh yeah, my face is burning. It's burning.

SPEAKER_03: 4:58

Oh, this is great podcast material. Great podcast material.

SPEAKER_01: 5:02

Listening to a man self-destruct himself in real time. Hey, I got an idea. Hit me. Welcome back to Corporate Strategy, the podcast that could be an email. I'm Bruce. Oh, yeah, that's right. We do this thing.

SPEAKER_03: 5:16

Yeah, I'm Clark. How's it going, Clark? Oh, is that just how you're gonna start it after you put yourself in massive danger and these beams are still on your face? I don't think it can podcast in these conditions. This is new Bruce.

SPEAKER_01: 5:31

This is new Bruce.

SPEAKER_04: 5:32

Just living on the edge.

SPEAKER_01: 5:35

Yeah. I'm living on the edge, quote Aerosmith 1990 something. I like it.

SPEAKER_03: 5:41

How am I doing? I'm pinky's up. I'm uh Pinky's up. My back, my back is a little tweaked. Don't know what I did. Don't know if I slept weird. I got the MRI. MRIs are crazy, dude. Like if have we we didn't talk about this on here, dude? We talked about this in person. Yes. Shout out in person. MRIs. For everybody who hasn't got an MRI. I thought I had an MRI before. I did not have an MRI. I had a full-body MRI for my back. They put me in a tube. And the tube is so small. I'm not a small dude. And he my shoulders were like in that thing tight. I was kind of scrunched up. My nose was almost touching the top of it. And I was like, I'm not claustrophobic. But man, I feel like I could, like, if I were to sneeze right now and slam my head right above me, I could be claustrophobic because I would go full ball full on panic that I can't get out at this very moment. It was terrifying, dude. I mean, I was fine, but like I could see how people would like go crazy in there and like really hurt themselves.

SPEAKER_01: 6:43

Yeah, you are claustrophobic, Clark. You are literally describing describing claustrophobia. Yes. Because I could I've been in MRI. I was thinking about it after we talked about it. I'm like, I've done MRIs like multiple times. I had a I had a gallstone scare uh a while back. And I went to the hospital and I had to get MRI, and it was like totally fine. I just lay there, just lay there, just lay there and relax, just staring at the thing. Like, yeah, okay. Yeah, I can just I can sit here for 20 minutes. This is lovely. Yeah, you are claustrophobic, sir. Claustrophobia.

SPEAKER_03: 7:16

See, that's what's weird is like I'll go into the attic of the house, I'll crawl in the crawl space. Like, I don't have problems with that. I don't know why this thing, I was like, I was fine. I mean, I did it, I was fine, but I I just those thoughts were going through my head.

SPEAKER_01: 7:31

Your challenge before NextPod is I need you to go on YouTube and watch some of these man in cave videos. Yeah. Yeah, I need you to watch some of these videos about like people who get stuck in caves and like let me know how sweaty your palms are. Like, do a do a moisture check halfway through. Well, like you know, this is I have paper towel them. Yeah, well, and I mean you also have claustrophobia. I'm diagnosing you as your therapist. You claustrophobia.

SPEAKER_03: 7:58

You know what else? I mean, maybe maybe early signs that this is true. Okay, so we live by freshwater springs, clear water springs, wakaiva springs, all those things. There's places where you can swim underneath the rocks of the springs, and there's like aqua natural aquifers that like push the water through and keep it running all the time, and they push you through the other side. I refuse to do that. How long is the gap? It's not huge, like you'll maybe be under for like 15 seconds, maybe 20. 15 seconds is a long time to be underwater.

SPEAKER_01: 8:32

Yeah, but people do it, and I'm like a long time.

SPEAKER_03: 8:36

I know. Um people do it, especially when you're swimming. I could do it, but but then I think to myself, I'm like, I don't want to do it. That sounds terrifying. What if I get stuck underneath there?

SPEAKER_01: 8:44

Yeah, no, that's a big no for me, dog. And it's not because I'm claustrophobic, it's because I don't want to drown. Uh, there's too many variables there. Yeah, like if it's I I remember there was a pool in a hotel I stayed at as a kid, and there was indoor pool, outdoor pool, and you'd go under like the hotel wall to get to the outdoor pool. And like, that's that's no problem. Yeah, you know, two, three feet. That's no big deal. I can handle that. But 15 seconds, dude. Like I will swim in a pool and I'll just kind of float, hold my breath, and I can hold my breath for like 30 seconds to a minute if I'm not moving. But when I'm swimming, I can't stay under for more than 10 seconds because you're when you swim, you're exerting every single muscle in your body to move. It needs oxygen. Like, you drown quick. No, sir. No, 15 seconds, no way. No way, Jose.

SPEAKER_03: 9:37

It was wild, man. Like, part of me, the wild side of me wanted to do it. I just I couldn't do it. I was like, no, my brain won't let me. My brain, my brain doesn't think this is this is logical. This is not smart. Anyways, yeah, that's my saga about claustrophobia. Back's not great, but hopefully I get these results. We figure out what to do. We'll be fine. We'll figure it out. If you need me to come walk on your back, I'm happy to do it. I think that's a bad idea in this case. But if worse comes to worse, I might have to. You got my number. Yeah, you got my number. You know who to call. All right. How about you? I'm sorry to hear that, Clark. Yeah, well, thank you. But I think it's more important to understand where are you? Because last episode, the people heard the episode. We all want to know how is Bruce better.

SPEAKER_01: 10:21

How is Bruce? I think the real question we should be asking is why is Bruce? I think that's the real philosophical thing we need to get to. Yeah. Why is Bruce? What is Bruce? Yeah. You know, like there's there's some things to unpack there that you know, I I've I've got a soul search and find. Um, how am I? Um there are phases, you know, like there are phases of grief just in life. Whenever you go through traumatic events, like I think the the human mind goes to these phases. I'm definitely in the acceptance phase now. Okay, but I am still I am still angry. Yeah. And uh I I feel that I've fundamentally changed as a human being, you know? Like I I feel fundamentally different. Like the Bruce who was on this podcast a month ago is not the Bruce you're hearing today. It's a very different Bruce. And it's weird. I used I was even talking to my wife about this. It's like the advice I would give on the podcast when we're talking about listener problems, your problems. Often the advice you know I would even give to myself I I feel differently now. I feel very differently now. Yeah. Yeah. There is a poodle just broke in my office. Uh, there is a there is an aggression and a distrust that was always there that I feel has taken the light, to use the the the terminology from the M. Night Shyamalan movie. Uh what was that? What was that movie with Patricia? You know the one? The sequel to Unbreakable? You know, you know that one?

SPEAKER_03: 12:14

I know what you're talking about. But we gotta we gotta say it out loud because I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 12:18

Split. Split. You know split. Yeah, yeah. Um what has taken the light in me is something that I think has always been there, but is now front and center, which is just a hyper-aggressive distrust of corporate and an anger about the situation that we are in societally. Uh just to give you like an idea of of where I'm at mentally. Uh just watching some of the news recently, we don't need to get into specifics. I said, you know what? I would have never like fought and died for a cause before. Oh, I'm there. I'm there now. Like, if y'all need me, join the Discord. You know how to get me. That's all I'm saying. So that's where I'm at. Uh does that help?

SPEAKER_03: 13:01

Does that answer your question? Just call your boy Bruce. He'll bury a body for you. Does that answer your question, Clark? Listen, I'm not saying that people should post in the in the what which channel, what channel was it? Hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on. In the anonymous channel. But is it mirror as a corporate? Yeah, is it mirror as a corporate? But if you do, you better know that even though we don't know who you are, Bruce will take it so seriously, there may be a crime committed. And it will just be random. It'll be a random crime against a random person somewhere because of it.

SPEAKER_01: 13:38

Let's just say if you use the code word seek semper tyrannis, uh, and I happen to notice it in the Discord, Bruce, me, the the the podcast character you you know and love, uh, that's that's an that's an activation term. So, you know, just throwing it out there for you.

SPEAKER_03: 13:55

Yeah. You will. You will activate something that can't be deactivated. It'll be it'll be bad because you'll just see a random thing on the news. And it won't even be your grievance. Like we don't have enough, it's anonymous. Is it me or is it corporate? So since it's anonymous, we won't even have anything to work off of. Bruce will just go into this mode, and bad things are gonna happen. You're gonna see it on the news and be like, that sounds weirdly related to my thing, but it's not my thing. You know what you did.

SPEAKER_01: 14:21

You know what you did. You know, it's interesting. My wife and I were playing uh the Batman Arkham series, and I've always loved Batman. I've actually read thousands of Batman comics. This is not an exaggeration. I've I've read thousands of Batman comics in my life.

SPEAKER_03: 14:34

Wait, quick side story. Your first office, you had a comic book wall, the whole wall, every every no, all four walls were covered in all of these different comics, and yeah, you had a sag of Batman comics in there.

SPEAKER_01: 14:50

Yeah, I'm a I'm a Bat fan, as they say, and it's funny because we're playing this game, we're streaming it on her her Twitch channel, and I had this just visceral realization that like I no longer like Batman because Bruce Wayne is a billionaire, and I'm like, oh no, I'm ruined. I'm really ruined as a human being. Because I was like, oh my gosh, this is insane. This is actually insane. The most, the most insane thing in the DC universe is not that Superman exists and Martians are real and the lanterns power, you know, is beaten by fear. None of that is stupid. What's stupid is the fact that you have an actual like multi-billionaire living in a, you know, a Chicago-sized city and has decided to fight crime one-on-one rather than use his wealth to actually fix the problems, which are incredibly fixable with wealth, by the way. Like all of those villains just need therapy. And had they not been shoved into a low-budget asylum, had Bruce actually just taken like a minute of his life to think, hmm, maybe if we put crazy people in an asylum, you know, pretty much run by convicts, they're not gonna get fixed. Like, all he needed to do give a few million to hire good staff. Yep, you know, put these people in therapy, get them right in the head, get them back out in the world. You have no problem. Batman is the issue. He is like, in his classic billionaire mindset, like I'm gonna I'm gonna fix this the absolute worst way possible, instead of just doing the one thing that I need to do, which is spend my freaking money and and redistribute it into the the people that need it. But no, I'm gonna hoard it. And I'm gonna make it I'm gonna make a flying bat plane. That's that's gonna help solve Gotham's problems. Let me tell you, I I can fix this with a plane shaped like a bat.

SPEAKER_03: 16:47

Yep. I love that you're going through this existential crisis, but it's so true because he's treating the symptom, not the cause. Yeah, and all that wealth could have such a bigger impact than it is. Yeah. And he's just going out there, he he's basically picking up this is the analogy. He's picking up pennies off the street instead of like just saying, okay, I've got all this money in the bank, I don't need to pick up pennies. That's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01: 17:11

It's exactly it.

SPEAKER_04: 17:12

Yeah, that's hilarious that I'm going through this.

SPEAKER_01: 17:14

Batman is ruined for me now, and that's how I'm doing. Does that does that answer your question, Clark? I think, I mean, I think it's good.

SPEAKER_03: 17:21

You're at the acceptance stage. I think anytime you go through something like this, it changes your perspective on a lot. Sure does. Yeah. And now I think is your opportunity to figure out are you gonna be a superhero or a super villain? You have to make this choice in your life. That's where you're at in the saga.

SPEAKER_01: 17:40

That's good. That's really good. I don't know. I don't know where I'm where I'm fitting right now. Let's let's put a Discord poll. Uh, I'm gonna leave my fate up to y'all. Uh, in the corporate strategy channel of our Discord, um, let's just start a poll. Should Bruce start his villain arc or go hero? Uh, you decide.

SPEAKER_03: 17:59

I'm gonna have to post it right now. Let's see what people say.

SPEAKER_01: 18:02

Well, this episode's not gonna come out for two weeks, so maybe we'll that's okay. They'll know it's in there. Because we haven't posted the one we've already done.

SPEAKER_03: 18:11

This one Oh yeah, okay, okay. We gotta wait.

SPEAKER_01: 18:13

So they're gonna be like, what the heck? There'll be even more. You gotta give it a week. Yeah, maybe next Thursday. Post this poll.

SPEAKER_03: 18:25

Yeah, I think I think you might be, I think it might be time. It might be time. I think so. It might be time to do it. Yeah. I got a great topic for today. Oh, we're not done? I thought we were done. You want to close it? I mean, I'm good. I'm good to close it. No, it's let's do the topic. You said you had a good topic.

SPEAKER_01: 18:42

I'm really excited about it. I have a good one. You've been coming up with such good stuff recently. I was like, man, what can we talk about that we've never talked about before? And like I was I'm at work doing my job, and because of you know, the state I'm in and things that are going on, I had this like moment of like, oh my gosh, this is perfect. This is perfect time because I'm I'm I'm living this right now. Time. Time. We've never talked about time as a topic. What do I mean by that? When you work, when you're at your desk in an office, when you're at your desk at home, at your laptop, you get an email. Do you respond right away? Do you prioritize responding? Do you say, I'm gonna check my all of my email at two o'clock? I wait 24 hours. I have a 24-hour SLA on all my responses. Time. It's a very interesting and very personal aspect of how we work that I don't think we've ever really talked about in detail before. And some of this is is dictated by you, the worker. You have a you have some say, depending on your autonomy and your organization on how you operate within time frame. Some of it is dictated for you by the organization. We have communication standards. You need to be able to respond to a Slack message within 12 hours. Otherwise, you know, like it's a problem. You'll have talks with your manager. So let's talk about time. Interesting. What's good, what's bad, and what do you recommend?

SPEAKER_03: 20:15

Oh, that is really interesting. If you my brain goes so many places as you were talking through this. Because like we've we've touched on parts of this, but never like specifically around the topic, which I think is going to be interesting to work through. My first thought goes to like at the macro level of things.

SPEAKER_02: 20:37

Like life. Life. Life. It comes at you fast.

SPEAKER_03: 20:45

It hits you. It hits you fast. But you are. I mean, that is the biggest constraint of all. You only have so much time. And all of us are subject to the end of time. That's right. I mean, there is a literal hate death for the universe. Everything is limited. Everything will be limited based on time. Yes. Which is huge. So like in your life, you've got to think about what do I do with that time? Like, that's what my point first is like the existential questions you're going through right now. I'm spending a lot of I spend a lot of my time working. Everybody does. I mean, a good chunk of your day every day. Half your life is working, half your life is just being a human being. And whatever you're doing, you should really enjoy get fulfillment or justify why you're doing it.

SPEAKER_01: 21:40

Time is a cost, right? Yeah. Because you know, they always say, you know, my hourly rate,$60 an hour, dollar a minute. Right? Like we associate the the old the old saying, time is money. And then when you're in the office, you're getting paid for your time. And part of the expectation of being a corporate citizen is learning how to manage your time, work with deadlines, and get things done. The the the curiosity for me comes from where does your time blend in with other people? Right? And how how is your time management affect those around you and how vice versa? So, you know, back to the email example. I get an email. Hey, Bruce, I need you to come up with uh, you know, uh a thesis for this an abstract for this this uh speech presentation that we're gonna give in the next month at this this venue. That's next month. Do I need to respond to this email right now? Well, they do have to submit the abstract within two weeks so they can create the titles and print out the pamphlets and make signage. Two weeks. Do I need to respond to this right now? You know, if I wait till the deadline, what does that get me? Can I work on something more important? How do I prioritize it? But like my decision tree to when do I respond to this email? When do I take the time to go build that aspect at abstract? It makes sense in my mind. But when I think about the person who is taking my abstract, they're submitting it. They may have to get it back for review, they may have to go through all like it it starts to compound in your mind about how impactful how you treat time in the workplace can affect others. And I think it can really boost or hurt people's perspective of you and that they think about you based on how you treat it.

SPEAKER_03: 23:45

Yeah, 100% agree. And it kind of goes down to priorities at the end of the day. Like at the end of the day, priorities need to be there so that way you can choose what do I spend my time on, what do I say yes to, or what do I say no to. And there's really only two, like, as things come in, emails, Slack messages, team messages, new projects, text messages, like you have to make a decision. Yeah, meetings, you've got to make a decision because it's all time. And yeah, I've always said like there's three uh three answers to something that comes in. Yes, I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna do it right now. You know, you get a text from your boss, okay, obviously urgent. I'm gonna treat a message from my boss as urgent because it is my boss, it's the person who's directly responsible for promoting me, for getting me higher pay, promotions, bonuses, all that stuff. Like that person is gonna trump a lot of stuff that's on my to-do list. And but when something comes in, you you basically have to say, yes, I'm gonna do it right now. Yes, I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna do it later, or no, I'm not gonna do it. Like, those are my three answers. There's nothing beyond that. And by later, it means there is a date. Like, if someone sends me something, it's not a priority for me, I'm gonna message them back and say, like, okay, cool, like it does sound like something I can help with. What do you need it by? And if they tell me a date that I'm like, it's not gonna happen based on everything happening, like, hey, sorry, I have these other things. Here are my priorities, X, Y, Z. Unless that can trump one of those things, I can't help you right now.

SPEAKER_01: 25:26

So I want to go back to what you just said because I'm very intrigued by this. You're telling me you've got a system that ensures that anytime something comes through, you've got a prioritizate, like a three-tier prioritization practice that ensures that whatever that request is, there is some kind of deadline time associated with it.

SPEAKER_03: 25:48

I I I'm I'm crossing my arms. People can't see me. I'm crossing my arms. I'm David Allen getting things done. This is part of the system that I use.

SPEAKER_01: 25:56

Are you are you the coolest man on the planet? You're not David Allen is so lame. So lame. I mean, that cover. I'll never let him live it down that David Allen. That cover. Let David Allen. I hope you listen to the pod. I hope you don't mind the ribbing I give you. If you want a good cover, let's talk. I've got some ideas. Yeah, the cover's rough. I love doing this bold.

SPEAKER_03: 26:18

Yeah, it's dude. It's can you it's break that down. Break that down. Let me walk you through it. So anything, everything that comes in is it comes in your inbox, like text messages, physical mail, like everything has to come in to you somehow. Yeah, yeah. You could have a tree fall in your backyard. Something just came in. You have to deal with that at some point. Everything has to be systemized. Systematized. I don't know how to say it. Systematized. Systematized. So that way, systemography handled. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, systemography. Yeah. System top all top homologied. Yes. You take in whatever comes in, and you have to put it into a system. Otherwise, your brain just can't do everything. Like your brain doesn't work that way. Many might disagree with you, but I follow. Continue. Okay. So I've got this system. Something comes in. I'm like, okay, I gotta answer this question. Yes, I need to do it. Is it urgent? Did something just fall on my house? I have to go get this thing off my house, tarp my house. I don't want rain to get in my house. Like, that's urgent. I'm doing it right now, prioritizing it over everything else. But if it falls in the backyard, not hurting anything, I'm like, okay, it's later. And but when is that later? Well, what are the pressing things that may become a problem? Maybe it's on a fence. So what if the dogs get out? You know, like there's things that aren't a problem yet, but they can become a problem, but it's not urgent. So you always got to establish what is the time frame I'm working with to be able to do this thing. And sometimes the answer might be at the end of the day, no, I'm not doing it. It fell in a forest somewhere, it's gonna just sit there forever, and I'm just never gonna get to it. Maybe on a rainy day one day I'll get bored and I'll have time to do it. But the answer is probably never gonna do it. But this works in the workplace and it it sucks to deal with people like this, but it's a reality of being a professional that, and especially if you're good at your job, your demands are only gonna go up. You have to say no. And like when something comes in and they're like, I need this by next week, it's like, okay, cool, I've got these six other things that have to get done by next week. Which one of your things, or or which one of my things, can you trump with your thing? And if they're like, okay, no, you've got way higher priority stuff than I'm working on, then the answer is unfortunately no. And and you have to be rigid about that. I'm I'm very rigid about it, and it probably some people probably don't like me because of that, but I'm just being transparent. I'll be like, this is the stuff that's in front of me. And sometimes they tell me, like my boss, sometimes I'll even have to go to her and I'll be like, hey, by the way, here's my list of things. You just told me to do another thing. How do I rank this and everything else? Because I don't know the priority of this thing. Because you're in things that I'm not, I don't understand your motivations, and then I'll have to ask her, and then she'll be like, Oh, yeah, just drop these two things that can happen in the next three weeks. This needs to happen by next week. I'm like, okay, perfect. We've got clarity.

SPEAKER_01: 28:59

You are negotiating time with a stakeholder. Yes. I'm the master of this. I'm the product what I do. That's true. That's what you do. That is what you do. Um, I I should have seen that coming from a mile away because that is what you do, and that's why you're so good at it. Because for me, it's in marketing, in marketing and sales, it's yes and, right? Like there never really is an opportunity. This is not a high priority. Everything that comes across my plate is a priority because it's all lead-generating material, right? Or if you're in sales, it's like everything's a priority because it's all technically a lead that can close. So then it's a matter of like, well, how do we keep this lead? Is this a warm lead, or is this, you know, something like they're gonna close next week if we don't get on this deal? Like, you know, there are there are negotiations and valuations that occur, but I think in your case, it's kind of cool because you've got a prioritized stack as a product manager that you're managing. You've got a boss who's also a product manager and they've got their own prioritized stack. So y'all are like basically dealing, you're wheeling and dealing in time. Whereas a lot of folks in the marketing and sales world, we got to do this all on our own. We ain't got nobody to bounce off because it's like, well, at the end of the day, they're gonna be mad at me either way. So someone's going to be mad, something's gonna fail. So either I make time, work extra, or do a crappier job and and just kind of squeeze this stuff in, or someone's gonna be upset with me, right? Like there is sometimes there is not an or, it's always an and.

SPEAKER_03: 30:39

See, but I think it's I think it's about expectation setting too.

SPEAKER_01: 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 30:43

Like there have been points where when I haven't worked in a direct technology company, but I've been I've worked as a technology organization as part of a different company that does entertainment or hospitality or whatever it is. Sometimes you have stakeholders coming in and they both think their thing is number one. Yeah. And sometimes you gotta get in a room and like help them realize guys, we have limited resources. You both need things done by next week. Yeah, we need to figure this out because we're only getting one of these things done. Let's come to an agreement here. And it's it sucks because you're the mediator in this discussion, but then it becomes a well, what's best for the company discussion? And being like, Yeah, you're right. You've got this pressing event, you've got a host, you've got this giant sale you're about to close. That is better for the company than the thing I need. So I'm okay waiting another week. And like, that's such a hard thing to do, but sometimes it comes to I can't get either of them to agree, and I need to get them in a room and have them hash it out.

SPEAKER_01: 31:42

Have mom and dad argue really quick, and then we'll figure out what to do. I don't know if there's a name for this, but uh, have you heard the principle that if you put a deadline on something, it will get done by that deadline. We've talked about it. It's a question of quality, yeah, yeah. It's a question of quality, right? And like, how what's the end result? It will get done, but what is the end result, right? I feel like we should call this like the Pikachu principle or something. Like, if it hasn't a name, we should name it. We should we shouldn't have a really good name for it.

SPEAKER_03: 32:10

It's not the Pareto, it's not the Murphy's Law, but there is a law that says like by the task will be the the task will fit the time that's given. And is that the Pikachu principle?

SPEAKER_01: 32:23

No, it's not called the Pikachu principle. What a shame. What a shame. You know, whoever named that thing should be slapped for missing such an easy opportunity. Some little layup right there. I'll let it keep going. Okay, you look it up. But like there, there's this idea, which just like Clark said, if you set a deadline, it will be done. The question is of what quality, of what level of success, but like there will be a doneess factor to it. And you can you can kind of mentally work through this with pretty much anything, right? Like if someone's like, hey, I need you to go build a rocket, you're like, okay, sure. What's the deadline? Like next week. Well, okay, the rocket's going to be purchased from Walmart, and it's going to be one that I light off in the yard and it's going to go 10 feet, and a little army man's gonna pop out with a parachute when it explodes, and that'll be that'll be it, right? Like that's the kind of rocket you get in two weeks. Or like, you've got a 10-year deadline on this to build a rocket, and you've got$10 billion to do it. It's like, well, I can probably actually make this happen. Uh not gonna do it by myself for sure, but like you've given me the time and the resources to actually, even though I know Jack nothing about rockets, I guarantee you, with$10 billion in 10 years' time, I can build you a rocket. Now, I I have no idea right now what the end result quality and success rate of this thing will be. But I am confident it will be better than the Walmart rocket I would have built had you given me two weeks and$10, right? So, like I I love this theory because it is true. And I I live this every day in my job, which is depending on the deadline you've given me, you might get Bruce's master's piece, or you might get Bruce's bathroom expedition, right? Like there are there are varying levels of outcome quality here based on the time you give. And I'm just thinking about how we take this principle and pair it with what you've built. Because I really like your sort of your your three-tier system or your your tree, your your tree logic that sorts out like, okay, if it comes from this person, it's guaranteed to be a priority. I need to move this top of the stack, you know, bottom priority, we're not gonna work on it all, right? Like there's you've got your levels of prioritization. You pair that with the deadline system. I think you got yourself a pretty workable model for managing time really well.

SPEAKER_03: 34:44

Yeah, 100%. First of all, I don't want to be on Bruce's bathroom expedition, so don't ever invite me on that. Second of all, the law is called Parkinson's Law. Work expands to fill the time of unfortunate name. Yeah, just gonna say it is very unfortunate, very unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01: 35:02

I think that's probably there was another P word they could have chosen. And it is Pikachu. I'm just saying, you know, like, hey, you really missed the boat.

SPEAKER_03: 35:12

But but this this is so true for like the human mind. Yeah, but yeah, you can either have it cheap, good, or fast. And like those are kind of the three technology things. It's like if if you only give me so much money and I need to have it done in a period of time, it's gonna be cheap and it's gonna be fast, but it's probably not gonna be any good. And like you can only pick two of those three things, right? But I think the Parkinson's law is important because even as a manager, by setting that for teams and people, you keep everybody working towards whatever the objective is. If there's no timeline around it, it can never be properly prioritized. And it never will get done because people will just keep on working on things forever. That's the way the human brain works. It's like if you have this much time, I'm just gonna either keep on procrastinating it until I get there and then I actually have to get it done, or I'm gonna work on it and iterate and iterate and iterate way beyond what's actually needed. So I've talked about this before. Like when I ask my team for two things, I tell them what, not how to do it, I tell them what success looks like, and I tell them their constraints. And usually the constraints is time. I need you to have this presentation done by next Friday so I can review it and so we can present it to the CEO or whoever. And so that time constraint, now they know I need to focus and get this done. And because I only have so much time, I now have to negotiate. Well, I can't build that data graph because I don't have time to pull the data set and get this person in the room and do the analysis. So is it okay if we do this instead? But you start getting creative because you're on a time crunch and you know the objective.

SPEAKER_01: 36:43

And what you just said is perfect because you're budgeting time for multiple people. You've given the assignment. I need this presentation by next Friday so I, Clark, can review it. Now you've got your own timeline that you've mapped out here because you know it has to be presented to the CEO, whose time you are taking for the presentation. And what you've created is a path to success. And that actually kind of leads me into something I was thinking. We should we should start on every episode moving forward. End each topic session with outcomes. Because outcomes are really how you get to that next stage in your career. What do you get from proper time budgeting?

SPEAKER_03: 37:24

Yeah, a hundred percent. One other thought before we close. Yeah. I think this all kind of goes back to the macro of you only have so much time. You have to choose, first of all, what are your goals? What do you prioritize to help you reach those goals? Like, I think that's maybe this is a little bit of the outcomes, but that's where you start. It's like if you don't even know what those are, you'll never be able to properly prioritize because you have a moving target, right? Like you got to know where you're heading, you gotta know the steps to get there. You have to have a plan. And to do that, you need to have that framework we talked about. Like you have to treat everything as it comes in, as a new thing that either is gonna help in your plan, is gonna hurt in your plan, and or is something that you can do later, but it's still you know now part of the plan. And I think where people go wrong is like I check email and I'm religious about responding to email, but I I respond to everything. And I have I have set aside time, like you said, I have like two or three times a week where I sit down, I triage all my email, but I take the action out of it. If I don't understand frame or the objective, I quickly respond. I say, When do you need this bike? What is the purpose of this? And like, first of all, it's good training for them. I seem harsh and blunt, but it's good training for them to be like, when you approach me with an ask, what is the purpose provide this? Yeah, I've literally asked that to be like, what is the objective of what you're asking? Because that helps me prioritize, right? Otherwise, I don't know. And like, why would I prioritize this over anything else that you've given me? Um, so I think that's like it's important for you to ask clarifying questions to understand, and then you can process it easier because then you know, oh, I thought this was pressing, but my boss doesn't need this until quarter three. I've got two quarters to figure this out, and like that stuff will come in. And if you don't understand how to ask those clarifying questions, you're and you don't tackle those things as they come in to ask those questions, you'll you're gonna be all over the place. And then you got to get into a system where you can keep organized. So those are those are my pro tips.

SPEAKER_01: 39:21

And I I love that as we get into outcomes because let's say you had that experience, right? Like someone, someone said, Hey, I need you to do this, and you don't ask any clarifying questions. So you well, I assume they need it pretty quick. I'm gonna go create this presentation in the next two weeks, and you give it to them, they're like, What is this? Like, I I expected a lot more from you. This isn't due for two quarters. Like I expected something much bigger, and like, oh, I didn't know it was due in two quarters. That clarifying question helps you get to a better outcome. And I think that's like that's what I wanted to kind of get to in the end here is when you learn how to budget your time and work around. The time budgets of others, not only do you appear more competent and more capable and more in control, people will people will look at you as the oh, this person is someone reliable. I know that if I give them something, even if they don't say yes, like I'm I'm gonna get prioritized. Like the the outcome, like in for your own brand, your own stock in the company is reliability. Uh, you'll be viewed as someone who is in control. You're not lazy, and you actually might be lazy. You can use this to your power, like sandbag your time if you need to. But like you, when you control time and when you can budget it well, you are just viewed as a more competent, capable worker. When you ask those clarifying questions, like Clark said, it's easier for you to budget time, understand the assignment, and under and understand the outcome that is expected of you. And when you do that, you produce better work, which in turn makes you look better. So I would say learning how to do this skill, incredibly important for you and a great way to raise your stock in any corporate environment you work in.

SPEAKER_03: 41:06

Yeah, this is the foundation to everything. Yeah. And I think the only downside to this, and maybe you have a pro tip, and maybe it's an upside. People that are asking for unimportant things or help when they can figure it out on their own, they start to fade away. Because they understand they're not getting things. Like the lower priority stuff, maybe this is a nicer way to say it, the lower priority stuff starts falling off the list. Yeah, and you kind of feel like a jerk sometimes, because really Sally's super nice, but every time she asks me for anything, I tell her no. And like you feel like a jerk, and she's like, Well, I don't come to you for that because I know you're so busy. I get this comment all the time. You're so busy with everything else. So they never come and ask for help. And so it kind of stings to get that, but again, if you know your objective and your goals, you you know you're guiding light. Like you know you have to make sacrifices to get there. And I think that's the key.

SPEAKER_01: 42:06

Well, and and here's the the question for Sally Did you get it done?

unknown: 42:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:12

Did you need my help? Did you figure it out? Yeah. Did you figure it out? Was the end result so much worse without my involvement? Right. That you regret doing it the way you did it and rather had involved me in the first place. And I bet you, nine out of ten times, I have no idea to back this up, but I my my jellies tell me nine out of ten times, the answer is no. The answer is no. And by by budgeting what you know is important and what your management dictates is a priority, you will stand tall and look great in your organization because you know how to prioritize and you know how to master time.

SPEAKER_03: 42:50

Yeah, I a hundred percent agree with you. I think that's the that's the only way to do it. And unfortunately, people who aren't good at their jobs or they're nice, but again, you know, not super competent and need to figure out things on their own, like this pushes those things out. Like, people don't come to you anymore like that. And that that is a good thing and a bad thing because you kind of feel like a jerk at the same time, like you, they're gonna figure it out. And I agree with what you're saying. It's like they still probably had to figure it out for the sake of their job. So they did just fine without you, so you can focus your time on more important things that are gonna help get you to your goals at the end of the day. Exactly it. Yeah, it's exactly great. And I think you've got to think about that. Like, that's that's my biggest takeaway is sit down, write down what your goals are, and then think about like, how do I get to those goals? You know, I need to work closer with my manager on things. Okay, well, how do you make time so you can do that? That means you're gonna have to get rid of some things that you're currently doing to be able to do that, or work harder and longer. Working harder and longer isn't is an answer. To me, it's not the right answer. To me, it means you have things on your plate that are not as important as other things. And you should shed those things so you can focus on the right things. And that's particularly true if you're like, well, I've been trying to get a promotion for years. You're not doing the answer is you're not doing the right things to get promoted. Otherwise, you would have been promoted.

SPEAKER_01: 44:12

Or you work for a crap hole company. I mean, there there is always option B, but I think more often than not, Clark is on the money here.

SPEAKER_03: 44:20

Yeah, and it don't do the definition of insanity. If something's not working, do something different. Love that. Love that.

SPEAKER_01: 44:27

I think that's a I think that's a perfect that's a perfect note to call it on. Wouldn't you agree? I agree. Great job. Outcomes. Hey, outcomes. We got it, we did it. Um uh speaking of outcomes, if if someone like you know listened to this and said, like, oh geez, I would love to ask them some more questions about time. Specifically, like, how would I go about building something that would allow me to traverse time, perhaps even go back into time.

SPEAKER_03: 44:58

Clark, where would they go to ask us those kind of questions? Well, I'll be honest with you, everything you just asked about is being planned and worked on as we speak, but it's only available in the Discord. I knew it. Okay, there's only one way there's only one way to find out these trade secrets and get in on our time traveling scheme, and it's to join the discord. All you gotta do is scroll down to your notes. There'll be a link tree. There's a there's a tree. There's a there's a link, there's a tree. Huge tree. You click on the tree and it opens up, it expands the tree, the tree limbs expand, and you'll see in there there's a join the discord. It's I think it's like one click. Maybe you've never been on Discord. Maybe it seems scary. You literally just have to put in your name, and that's it.

SPEAKER_01: 45:42

And and I'm not gonna say that our our time travel plan involves us going back to you know the early 90s and buying lots of Apple stock and and and disseminating it across you know the various members of the Discord and then moving back to today where we sell it all. That's definitely not what we're doing. But you know, if it was something we were doing, uh, you definitely wouldn't want to miss out on an opportunity like that and join the discord.

SPEAKER_03: 46:08

Absolutely not. And also, we can travel to the future, and we may or may not know you, you listener, if you've joined or not. So shame on you.

SPEAKER_01: 46:17

Well, we know. We actually we do know because we did that one test and we looked in the discord, and sadly, you weren't there. So change the future, be the change you want to be. Oh no, I think they just broke it. I just I literally just felt a shake in the space-time continuum, and now they're in the discord. Great, great. We we done messed up. I don't think the stock plan is gonna work anymore. No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03: 46:44

It's gonna be so distributed.

SPEAKER_01: 46:45

We're there's really shaky vibes. We're getting nothing out of this. This plan was a ginormous failure. Why did you join the Discord? Hey, you know what else? If you want to help us now that we're poor um monetarily, you can do that by buying us a coffee. Uh, it might not be the forever way that you can support the show. Hint, hint, tease, tease, tease, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. But for now, because the time travel plan failed because you joined the discord, uh, you could buy us a coffee through that uh that link, which is also in the link tree. And what's the what's the other thing they could do if they want to help us?

SPEAKER_03: 47:16

The best thing in the world. Share. What's that? Share with your friends, share with your fellow people that want to get Apple stock. Share with people who bug you about your time all the time, and send them this, and then after you're sure they listen to it, then tell them I'm not helping you with your crap anymore, Sally. Figure it out.

SPEAKER_01: 47:37

And and that really is all there is to be said about all of this. So thank you as always for for listening. We hope you do all three of the things we just suggested. But if you don't, don't worry, we already know. We saw it happen, and we are very pleased andor disappointed with you. Thanks as always for your listenership. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Please let us know what you think in the Discord. Until next time. I'm Bruce.

SPEAKER_02: 48:06

And I'm Mark. And you're on mute. We can't hear you, but we can see you. And we'll see you next week.