SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Oh no, you didn't. You didn't.

SPEAKER_02: 0:05

I done did it.

SPEAKER_01: 0:07

I did. I did. Oh, this is not good. This is not good, folks.

SPEAKER_00: 0:13

I know we talk about this uh quite often when we start the pod. Uh for those not in the know, we have a little podcast recording utility called Craig. And he's a little beaver. He's cute, brown, got cute little ears, sitting in front of a microphone, super cute little thing. Happy to have him on the pod. Never speaks, does his job, very respectful. Sometimes Craig gets sick, though, and we have to summon J Ark, who is dark Craig. And it's very funny because Clark and I, we look at each other. We look each other in the eyes. We don't break eye contact for the entire pod. It's it's a very sweet and intimate thing we share when we record this. But this little when when we invite Jark in, when Craig fails, this this dark gray, angry eyebrow, smiling beaver in front of a microphone is just in the bottom of the screen. It's so menacing. It changes the entire vibe of what we do. Like Craig's here, we are ourselves. G-Arc is here, I'm horrified.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20

There's just something so simply menacing about the difference. Like they're both beavers, for sure. But the colors that embody G-Arc versus Craig, and then the little angry kind of it's not angry because he's smiling, but the menacing little eyebrows. Like and then the color. The color is just like a a bloodbeat red.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47

It just changes the vibe. To give the best description I can of Craig and G-Arc, uh, G-Arc looks like he's about to drop a slur. Craig looks like he's about to hear one from G-R. And that is the faces. That is the face of these two bears or beavers or whatever the heck they are at all times. And it just it wigs me out, man. I do not like J-Arc, but sometimes we get a call on him when Craig is sick.

SPEAKER_01: 2:14

Yeah, when Craig's out, when Craig's sick, you gotta bring him in. But it changes the vibe. It definitely changes the vibe. I feel a little on edge today. So we're gonna see how this goes.

SPEAKER_00: 2:25

It puts me in a mood to be menacing, you know. Like I want to be a little menacing right now. I want to be I want to be a bad podcast host. Yeah, like I don't even want to say the name of the podcast. No, no intro music, no podcast. No intro. Not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01: 2:38

No, and you know what you're doing, and you're smiling because you know you know it's gonna drive people crazy as they're waiting for the intro to drop. They think Chris Bruce is gonna do it, he's gonna do it now. He's gonna wait till halfway through the show, he's just gonna drop it right before the end. Or maybe Bruce doesn't do it at all.

SPEAKER_00: 2:55

Wouldn't that be something? Wouldn't that and now, you know what? I guarantee you, this will be the most listened through episode because people are gonna be like, when's he gonna drop it?

SPEAKER_01: 3:06

When's he gonna drop that intro? Everyone's gonna be like waiting on on the bait and breadth of every word you say. Because they're they're gonna hear like something that starts with the letter W. And they're gonna be like, uh, is he gonna is he gonna do it?

SPEAKER_00: 3:20

They're gonna be there, you know, and I'll set it up. See what I'll be like, hey, you know what else I'm gonna do, Clark? Welcome you to my home because I love you as a person. You're always welcome inside.

SPEAKER_01: 3:33

Our poor listeners are gonna be like, What in the absolute heck are you doing? Just know it's because of G-Arc. If G-Arc wasn't, we wouldn't be doing this. It's G-Arc's fault. It's Discord and G-Ark's fault. Their creation.

SPEAKER_00: 3:46

If you want to see for yourself the menacing look that is G-Arc, join our Discord. In order to do that, go into your show notes, click the link tree, join the Discord. It's free, it's open, it's it's a great place to be. But you will see in our member list that menacing little beaver. Oh, he is menacing. And he's gonna bring some menace to the show today. I'm I'm ready to have a more menacing episode. Me too. And with that, let's start villain arc?

SPEAKER_01: 4:11

Vibe check. We got we yeah, yeah, yeah. Vibe check. Villain Bruce. I want to hear about bad boy Bruce and what is what vibe check because a lot of the times you you sidetrack my vibe checks, and I never ask about your vibe checks. So this time we're starting with bad boy Bruce in his villain era. Tell us.

SPEAKER_00: 4:29

I'm being a bad boy, I'm being a real bad boy. Oh yeah, oh yeah. I'm being a real bad boy. Would you believe it if I told you I just worked non-stop every day for the last week, and I'm traveling to Atlanta for work this week? I'm really doing it. I'm in my villain arc. This is like quiet quitting here.

SPEAKER_01: 4:49

I am this is so different than the conversation we had not two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00: 4:58

What happened? What's different? My my villain arc is me ignoring my own goals I set for myself because I'm a bad boy. My villain arc is doing things that aren't good for me. I'm a bad boy.

SPEAKER_01: 5:15

I was just about to say, we start off, we end 2026, or we start 2026 with what can we do better? What are we gonna change? You go on this giant rant, the Discord community is concerned about you. They're talking about how can we help Bruce? Do we like villain Bruce? Do we not like villain Bruce? And instead, you're just a villain to yourself. This is some weird boy. This is some weird reverse psychology. I don't even know. Like, you're being you maybe you went full 360. You decided to fully go into your villain arc so hard that you ended up exactly where you started.

SPEAKER_00: 5:56

I don't like I don't like that you just retrospected me in like less than a sentence. That's not cool, man. If you're gonna do that, do that off pod. Don't don't do it in front of the listeners. Mom and dad can't fight in front of the listeners now. It's because if J-Rk wasn't here, I wouldn't do this to you. I've never felt so red and analyzed. Have you ever thought about being a full-time psychiatrist?

SPEAKER_01: 6:25

Listen, I got my own things to work through. I'm not ready for that. Oh man. Oh mama. Didn't know Clark was coming for me. How you doing, bud? How you doing? Just throw it right back to me, huh? Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 6:37

I'm fine.

SPEAKER_01: 6:40

That's great. Glad to hear it. Sometimes fine is the best you can ask for. Just fine. You know? Not bad. Not good. Just vibing. You know, it's getting vibing. It's getting a little chilly where we're at. And I think across the U.S. right now, it's getting chilly where we're at. Well, I had some friends. I had some friends reach out. Yeah. From Minnesota, from Michigan, and they texted me. Minnesota? Yeah, they said, Minnesota, my Minnesotan friends, up across the river. They uh they said, Don't you dare tell me it's cold where you're at. They knew it was coming. And they said, Don't you even think about sending me that you're cold because I will murder you. It was the real feel in Minnesota the other day. Negative 43. They closed the schools. The schools were closed.

SPEAKER_00: 7:32

Yeah. Crazy. My my brother-in-law, sister-in-law, who've been on the pod uh before, they're they're everything shut down. They're home today. Um, I have a member of my team who's in Canada right now. Let me tell you, man, he's like, I'm not leaving my house. I'm not leaving my house for anything. And part of me is a little jealous. Like, I love excuses not to leave the house. I would love everything to shut down. That sounds kind of well, I mean, we get hurricanes, but that's kind of not fun when we get hurricanes because it's like, yeah, you can't leave the house and you have no power. Uh and there's a there's a limb through your ceiling. So not as not as fun as cold, but I'll tell you this much. Walked my dogs in the chili this morning, and I was like, I can't do it, man. Like, yeah, it's like 40 something degrees out, and that that's cold by Florida standards, but I can't do the north. I will, I my bones will turn to dust in this state. I I cannot leave Florida because there is no way I can inhabit any climate other than this one. Just can't. Can't it's our people up north.

SPEAKER_01: 8:44

All my friends who come here that are from up north, they always say Florida cold is a different type of cold because it's a wet cold. And so they say, like, even though it's way warmer than it is where they are, they're like, it's a dry cold where we're from. Like in Florida, it chills you to your bones because it is a wet cold. And they're like, it's different. It is a different. And yeah, they're chilly when they come here, which is kind of funny. People don't realize that.

SPEAKER_00: 9:09

I've I've actually been to Minnesota. I think it was, I think it was 15 degrees when I was there. But I was walking around in you know, jeans and just sort of a, you know, a Florida jacket, and I was comfortable. And it was kind of, I'm like, this is really weird because it is the coldest I've ever experienced in my life, temperature-wise. But it honestly feels colder in Florida. And I will say the big thing about Florida cold is it's not just that there's humidity, it's that there's always a breeze. Right. And it doesn't matter because I have some thick jackets for when I have traveled up north, places like Philly, and I know I need to I need to be a little more bundled. You don't get the breeze there. But when you're walking your dogs and it's 40 degrees outside, that breeze cuts through your clothes, you do. You feel it in your bones. You're absolutely right, Clark.

SPEAKER_01: 9:57

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so anyway, I'm it's good. I I like this time of year. I like feeling the warmth of the sun on you when there's a cool, chilly breeze. There's something about it. I love it. So yeah, I'm just fine. Nothing exciting.

SPEAKER_00: 10:10

I'm I don't want it to be summer yet, just mostly because I don't want it to be already through half the year, but I'm ready for spring, you know? Yeah, like right on the spring. That's that's where I'm at. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:20

Yep. You know, and then I checked uh some of my friends in California. I checked their location and their weather, and I'm like, I hate you guys. It's 72 and sunny. 72 and sunny, like it always is in California.

SPEAKER_00: 10:34

We'll get the last laugh when the the mega quake happens and they all get swallowed up by the ocean, you know, like then when California's gone. Yeah, yeah. It's only a matter of time.

SPEAKER_01: 10:44

Shout outs to all of our California listeners. Just dropped to 49 states just like that. It's only a matter of time.

SPEAKER_00: 10:52

Well, technically, I think uh what a third of California will still exist because the fault line kind of goes from the southern third up. So, you know, just all of our friends in tech will be gone and you know, every single working actor, so we won't get good movies ever again. But uh, you know, it'll all be worth it. Yeah, because of that.

SPEAKER_01: 11:13

Sometimes you know sometimes you gotta, you know, have a big quake.

SPEAKER_00: 11:17

Have you ever looked into the mega quake? Like, have you ever looked, spent any time reading about so like I don't want to scare anybody, but you will be horrified. I think you should go to California.

SPEAKER_01: 11:30

Don't learn I learn most I learn most things. Like anytime you ask me, have you looked into this crazy, maybe conspirable type thing? The answer is always no. And the first time I hear about it is from you.

SPEAKER_00: 11:43

Well, it's it's not even a conspiracy theory so much as it is a geographical phenomenon that they've recorded in the past. And basically, there's because of tectonic plates and measuring core samples, they're able to determine, like, oh, this is when it happens. Like it happens every, you know, I don't I actually don't know the span of years. I'm not, you know, well versed in the California megaquake lore, but you know, it's it happens every span of number of years, and we are well past due for the next one. So, you know, and and the thing is, is they they say it could be anywhere from just like, yeah, it's just a bad earthquake to it could be so big that it literally like, you know, bugs bunny saws the state into the ocean. Yeah, yeah. Like it's and and the thing is, it doesn't just impact California. Actually, when this mega quake happens, like it will drastically alter the sea levels. So we very well might be screwed too. Uh we could have oceanfront property. That's what I'm great. What I'm telling you. And like places like Japan, Australia, like the Philippines, their sea levels would rise drastically, and like their property lines would they they would lose so much. So this is one of those mega geographical events we really don't want to happen because it will just destroy the planet. Uh well, it'll destroy society as we know it. But you know, yeah, you can do positive things on corporate strategy the podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 13:07

You kind of forget that.

SPEAKER_00: 13:08

That's not the intro, by the way.

SPEAKER_01: 13:11

That was not. That was very, that was very close. It's close. You kind of forget the world can just do those things. Like, yeah, when it was it, when it hasn't really happened in your lifetime, you're like, yeah, that's right. The world could just, you know, fracture part of it and we could all just be gone tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00: 13:27

It hasn't happened in a history recording time of the United States. Yeah. Right? Like, you know, before the colonizers came here, it was Native Americans. So, you know, there they have had, they they have experienced the mega quake before in, you know, some thousands of years ago, whatever the the timeline is. There have been people who have been and survived, but it wasn't people who recorded history in any sort of written format. So we're we're basing this purely on the science behind it, and uh, you know, it's just it's one of those. There are a lot of actual geographical phenomena like that that we're kind of just like, it is good, like you have you know, they're gonna the poles will flip eventually one yeah, yeah, and that will be weird. That will be really weird, yeah. We were so worried about Y2K, and like, oh no, what's gonna happen when we add a two to the to the digit? Like nothing because programmers aren't stupid, like what is wrong with you? But you know, it is quite easy to see how that would happen back then because in the 90s computers just everything was new, everything was magic, so everything was nice in the 90s, yeah. But uh yeah, great.

SPEAKER_01: 14:41

I'm this is why this is why we don't ask you for your vibe check, just because we know we know what's gonna happen is you're gonna turn all of our worlds upside down, and we're gonna have to worry about G-Arc coming in. This is just crazy vibes all over the place. Thanks a lot for this. We can blame G-Arc, and that's all there is to it. We can. That's where it all starts. I do have a topic today. You don't. I do. Well, okay, let's hear it. All right. Speaking of phenomena, are we leaning in? Are we leaning in? Yeah, yeah, lean in with me. Okay. Speaking of phenomenons and crazy things and hypothetical situations that could possibly happen. I want you, and I want everybody to close your eyes with me. I'm I'm looking at you, close them. I want you to rewind to your formidable years before you started your corporate life. Okay, are we there? Or are you falling asleep? So I'm guessing you're there. Okay, you're there?

SPEAKER_00: 15:43

Okay. I'm landscaping. Or I'm managing.

SPEAKER_01: 15:45

So you're landscaping, or you're woodworking, creating that awesome stool that I still haven't got a picture of that I'm really disappointed about. But at this point in your life, your future is full of hopes and dreams and all these things that you're gonna make your life be one day. You're hopefully learning the skills that you need to go into the corporate world and be successful and retire early and whatever your other dreams are. But I think something that the freshers need from you and from me, and maybe from the folks inside of our Discord is if we were to go back, what would we do differently before we started our corporate roles? Well what different type of skills would we learn? What different type of classes would we have taken? Maybe not college at all. What would we have done differently to be more successful? Clark, I don't want to go. I don't want to open my eyes. Are you are you just in such a good place right now, just pulling up roots and laying down landscaping bulch? I don't want to open my eyes.

SPEAKER_00: 16:46

Watering I can't, I can't do that. Irrigation I don't want to open my eyes. I'm I'm not I'm not leaving. You can't make me leave.

SPEAKER_01: 16:52

I'm staying here. I don't want to go. Well, let me tell you, G-Arc is gonna pull you right back in. You better be ready.

SPEAKER_00: 16:58

Oh god damn it, G-Arc reached through the screen and pried my eyes open, clockwork orange style. Oh my gosh, why did you have to do this to me, Clark?

SPEAKER_01: 17:08

You know, I've been feeling a little bit more introspective lately. And I should have probably warned you. Yeah, maybe maybe I should have warned you ahead of this. I actually thought about this topic and I was like, should I text Bruce and tell him? Because this is a heavy one that we really have to think on, or should we just dive in and just you know, go off the cuff, whatever comes to mind.

SPEAKER_00: 17:31

All right. Um, you know, this is weird. It's weird that you bring this up. So I went to uh Hogwarts Wizarding School for the Whites. I've mentioned this before on the pod. Um very expensive private school. And I went there for free because my mother worked there, and I also went there for free because I worked there full time. So there was there was dual perks happening in in my stead there. It also meant I got free textbooks because of my my employment at the campus. When I graduated, Hogwarts Visiting School for the Whites, I never went back ever. That was it. It was the last time I'd ever visit that campus because I I didn't feel like I had a very good education and I didn't feel that it was time well spent. And literally, I can't believe, I can't believe you brought this up. Literally a week ago, my wife and I uh attended a seminar on higher learning and education presented by the Orlando Sentinel, which is our local uh newspaper, at this very uh school, Hogwarts President School for the Whites. Yeah, and it was in an old auditorium I used to have to go to class in. And what's crazy, Clark, was absolutely buckwild about this, is when I walked onto that campus and saw things that both I worked on as an employee and then thinking about the classes I took as a student, there was a moment of clarity. And uh, as much as it pains me to admit this, I might have been wrong. And oh, oh, oh, yes, it does happen. Interesting. It does happen. Okay. Bruce, uh, Bruce can admit when he was wrong. And and I think this is a perfect segue into this topic because what I realized, and I've I've learned this since then, you know, brains develop at different speeds. And, you know, I'm a very emotional person, and you know, I'm also a male biologically. And you know, the male brain it develops a little bit slower. Did you know this?

SPEAKER_01: 19:25

Oh, yeah. And we mature mature. My brain is very slow in the development process. My wife would say that to anybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 19:33

We mature a little bit slower. And and here's the thing when I was thinking about a lot of the classes I took when I was at Hogwarts Wizarding School for the Whites, I was thinking about like, man, I would love to be in those classes today. Like, I would actually love to take those classes today and be a part of that structure versus when I did it, when I think it would have benefited me a lot more to have just been interning and kind of learning the ropes. Corporate, yeah, because I didn't appreciate the education. I just didn't take it very seriously. C's get degrees. I literally never did the assignments. I did just enough to get a passing grade in every class and move forward and graduate. And that was my education. And now, to be fair, it was a liberal arts school, and one of the nice things about the school was it did force me to participate in conversations and to be an active student, which I was, and I was very good at being active and participating. And I carry that forward with me for forever. It's good good opportunity, good learning. But man, I would love to be in those classes today and learn those things today, because I think I'd take a lot more away from them, having been in corporate for 15 years now, than I did when I went. So, I mean, to your question, there's so much more than that for me. Because if I was to go back in time and do it all over again, I would probably say, do the work first, then get your education when you know what you want to do, when you know what you want to like appreciate and really sink your teeth into it and get the most out of it, versus subjecting, hey, I just graduated high school, I have to go to college, I have to get a degree. Um, but I don't think that's really the case anymore. I think it it would definitely benefit you if you have a skill or you're interested in a trade to apprentice internship or look for that opportunity, get some experience there, understand the why, then go to college and learn all of the what to support the why. But uh that's just me being introspective and a little conversation I had with myself last week when I revisited it.

SPEAKER_01: 21:30

That's crazy. What a crazy series of events that kind of led you to realize that too. Like going back to that school and like having that realization. And it's interesting. You could have just for a second, but I think it got most of it. So I think it was like five seconds worth, but I think it carried on. So I think I think we're fine. I don't think there was anything too crazy. It was probably the part about Mr. Rogers, so don't worry about it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that part wasn't too, it only impacted your career in life. So, you know, that's not important. That's it. That's it. Oh, but you know, I think for me, as I was thinking about this, I think I had a very untraditional path. Um non-traditional in a lot of ways, because I went to a school, like I left my home, I went to a school, I started college, and I started wanting, like I knew I wanted to go into programming of some kind because I kind of always leaned towards technology. And you know, in high school, before I actually started college, I was messing around with programming things. So, as every I think young programmer does, you're like, I want to build video games. And so naturally, I went on YouTube and stuff like that, and I was like, let me just start building some crap. And I found the process, I didn't realize it at the time, but I found the process of like programming things was like a puzzle. It was like, okay, I can put a puzzle together of all these pieces and I can create something, which I thought was so cool because I'm not artistic, you know, I was always an athlete, but I never like created things, I just participated in things. And so I just thought the process was very creative and fun and uh very challenging for the mind. And so like it was something I really leaned into. But after a year of college, um, I had the opportunity through you to you know have an internship, and it was interesting because school kind of turned me off on programming because I wasn't good in the academic sense. Like I didn't I didn't know I wasn't good at doing the work because it didn't feel like what I was learning before. I was like, programming games was so much fun, and you know, doing these YouTube things, I was just throwing to the fire and just trying things and learning. And then school, it's like, hey, here's a piece of paper. I want you to hand write the code for this program and I'm gonna grade it. And I was like, this is not what I want to do. And so I very much like you was like, C's get degrees. I barely got by in my early stage CS degrees. But then when I started the internship, I was like, no, no, no, this is back to what I thought it was. And I can truly say that like if I didn't do the internship, I wouldn't be where I am today because I would have never gone down this path because school just turned me off to what I thought it was versus what the reality was. And so I 100% agree with you. Like, that was a very formal experience for me to be like, this is what I want to do, and it is what I thought it was. It's not just school in the way that they teach it that I'm gonna be doing for the rest of my life. So very much similar to yours.

SPEAKER_00: 24:31

Yeah, and it's it's kind of a tragedy. And this is what I was really thinking after I attended the higher education seminar, which was interesting, by the way. I didn't talk about the seminar at all. It was interesting because like I kind of felt like a lot of the it was basically a bunch of vice presidents of colleges talking about higher education, the importance of it. And we got to ask them questions and they really didn't answer them to my satisfaction. So it's like, hmm, you guys are part of the problem for why colleges are you know problematic the way they are. But and and and the reason why I bring this up is because colleges are designed for high school graduates, right? Like they want you on campus, they want you to be a resident, they want young, you know, young adults in their late teens, early 20s to go through a four or six or eight-year program based on like what you're trying to do. But it's not designed for adults. And I think it's a huge miss because if college actually presented itself as sort of an education platform for all, regardless of age, if you were interested in, hey, I want to learn about computer science, but I don't want to do all this bullshit elective nonsense. Like, I don't want to take, you know, chemistry 101 because I need to get a computer science degree. I'd like to just take, you know, 101, 102 networking and data studies. That should be an option for a 30-something year old adult, right? Right. And, you know, as someone who's switched careers three times, I would love to actually go take some college marketing courses or communications courses, right? Some business courses. But in order to do that, I would have sign up for a degree program and declare a major. You can't just go take those courses as an adult. So a little bit of the system is actually biased against you, forcing you to have to do this right out of high school. Like, figure out your entire life at 18 years old. Like, that's stupid. That's a really stupid thing because back to my earlier point, my brain wasn't developed enough to know what I wanted to do. Like, you knew you liked programming. I knew I liked computers, but I didn't really, I don't, I never liked programming, but I enjoy dinking around with computers. So I guess I'm a computer science major, right? I started off as an English major, which is why it took me a victory lap to finish off. And I enjoyed English a lot more. Like if we're being straight with each other, like I thought the English courses were really cool. I was reading cool books, I was writing neat papers, like I was getting to express myself creatively. But I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I think it's really hard for the freshers out there, especially if you are in college, getting ready to go to college, or freshly graduated from college, you're being funneled down a path that is so restrictive that needn't be that way, especially today in the age of information. Like I love specifically your story because when you said I was using YouTube to learn programming, I'm like, man, when I was your age, when I was using YouTube at that age, it was to watch Home Star Runner cartoons. And, you know, Ray William Johnson, we weren't at the educational videos on YouTube yet stage. So it's just that's the difference in our age, right? Like you actually had it as an educational resource. It for me, it was just loading videos slowly to laugh at something for two minutes and then move on with my life. But I I think that's that's indicative of actually like a thing that really should change as society as a whole. Learning should not be restricted to college, right? Education shouldn't be restricted to college, especially if it's so limited in who can attend, how much it costs, and what the outcome has to be. Like we really should open up the knowledge gates to everybody and basically say career shouldn't rely on four-year degree, it should rely on interest and ability to execute. Right. And I think that would fix a lot of the sort of crisis the freshers are in and the freshers are dealing with right now. Yeah. But I don't see society doing them any favors in that regard. Right. Yeah, I'm with you.

SPEAKER_01: 28:24

It is interesting because in a lot of ways, and I've I've always said this, I'm not academic. I you can't throw a book at me and me expect to read the chapters and learn and understand. Like, I just don't work that way. Like, I have to be hands-on, I have to learn, trial by fire, and like that's when it starts clicking for me, and I start putting it all together. And so in in school, I would never be good at the work. Like, I would do it, but it would just be like lackluster, whatever. But I was a good test taker. So like I would get by. I'm like, eh, I'm not gonna do the assignment, but I get the theory, I get the concept, like I'll be fine, and I can trust my gut, I'll figure it out. So I knew I was like smart, but I'm not academic, I don't enjoy that. And that stuff turned me off from school big time. Because exactly what you said, it's like, why am I learning chemistry? This has nothing to do with what I ever am gonna do, and I can even say now that has never mattered, you know, in my life. And school is really about yeah, creating well-grounded individuals that can kind of learn many different things and be able to choose what they want to do later. But to your point, people will want to go back and get educated. It's like that's not the path. Like getting a bachelor's of science in something makes zero sense for you. You will waste so much time and money while not likely learning any skills that you actually need to get the job or whatever you're likely get the job and make the life that you want to make, which is so unfortunate, but it's the only path, at least for the US, because we don't value trade programs as highly as other countries.

SPEAKER_00: 29:49

And I I think the other sad thing too is when I went to school, so I graduated in 2012. You graduated a little bit later than me because you're younger than me. But think of how much changed over the span of 2007 to 2012 for me. Yeah. Think how much changed over the span of when you graduated high school to when you graduated college. Think of the span a child in 2020 to 2024 has lived through. Like, you can't compare my time in college compared to a young adult's today's time in college. Things change so much. Literally, in the span of the last four years, AI came about, became the most biggest thing on the planet, has become a ginormous problem, and might destroy itself. Like, literally, that's happened in a span of four years. When I went to college, I mean nothing like you know, the the smartphone, the iPhone 4, yeah, really kind of shook things up, right? Like that was that was the thing, but it didn't it didn't shake my earth so dramatically as what AI has, as what COVID did, as you know, like we're going through exponentially fast change technologically. Same with workplaces, right? Like the the amount you're expected to do as a worker, you know. I look at some of the young people I work with, and their workload is insane compared to what my workload was when I was their age. And the expectations on them are so much more insane than what they were when I was their age. And it's not fair. I don't like it, but I also feel like college ain't doing no favors in that regard. It is not preparing you for the future that you are unfortunately being thrust into violently.

SPEAKER_01: 31:36

Yep, 100%. Like the world is changing so fast. And if you are learning and in school right now, writing on pieces of paper for programming, like you're you're not getting a job. Like you should be learning how to use AI tools and IDEs that have AI incorporated, like that is the future because it already is making entry-level programm jobs almost impossible to get because they don't exist. You don't need them. You can do the work of an entry-level, like, think about it now. And I've been using AI coding tools a lot. This is a quick retrospective. What we did back when we started for the first five to seven years of our career, AI could do that in like a day. But we would spend months on it. It could do it in like a day with zero tolerance, zero oversight. Like, it is gone. You could never do that again. And utility coding is no more. You don't need to do that anymore. Yeah. Absolutely. It's just crazy to think about that. So, you know, as you think about what we're trying to say here to everybody who's like a fresher and they may have found this podcast, if you're going to be successful in incorporating your in-school, we're not saying quit school. In a lot of ways, like getting a degree is still important. It's something you have to do, but you need to be exploring other things where you can get some real world experience doing what you want to do. Internships, um, you know, part-time jobs, uh, working for programs like the marketing department at your college and like doing things that are gonna be real life situations where you're managing those, you know, as you are now, because you're gonna learn so much more from that than you are in a classroom.

SPEAKER_00: 33:12

Uh, and and what I would also say, and I actually said this to the vice president of UCF, which is our one of the largest schools, I think it's the largest school in Florida, at this event. I went and talked to him afterwards. I was like, look, you know, I I graduated from here and uh we live right in the street from you. My wife and I would love to take a course or two, but we already have our degrees. Like there are things that interest us at your campus, but we can't do that as young adults. And he's like, actually, that's that's really good feedback. And he, you know, he said he'd take it back to his uh like they do they offer auditing. And what's wild is when you're 65 plus, you can go to school and audit any class for free for as long as you'd like. And I'm like, well, that's stupid. I mean, the 60, but no offense to our 65 and older listeners, but like, y'all lived the best lives you could have ever asked for in American history. You don't need the free classes, go pay. We need the free classes. We're struggling out here. Yeah. And uh, you know, I think if you are a fresher or if you're anybody and you have a connection or you have an opportunity to raise your voice in a in an experience like that, write a letter, reach out, send an email to the local, you know, uh burser of the college and say, hey, I'd be interested in attending your courses, maybe even paying for them. Um, but I don't want to declare a major. Like, I think what can happen is if enough people speak up, we can make a change and say college isn't just for 18 to 22 year olds. It should be for everybody and open that up because I do think that would be helpful. You said you're not academic. I was not academic, but have become academic. Like we go through changes in our life, and I really think the one thing that's just held us back in corporate in life as a society is our rigidity to tradition. We hold on to tradition as if it is some sacred thing. You must go to college, you must get a four-year degree, you must get a nine to five job. When in actuality, all of that is so stupid and nonsensical, and there's no real reason. There's no rhyme or reason or logic behind it when you think about it, other than we've always done it this way. Like we should ask for change. We should be speaking up and saying, this makes no sense. This is not helping people and and pointing out the folly in higher education and trying to make a fix.

SPEAKER_01: 35:35

Yeah. And also, you know, if you are a hiring manager, is being willing to look at people who may have not taken a traditional path because those might be the best people out there. And I think that's what I would always encourage, you know, as a product management leader. I always looked at people with diverse backgrounds. I'm like, oh, cool, you were a teacher like 15 years ago, and then you switched into tech and you were a copywriter, and then you kind of got into tech teams, and you know, you were helping build UX, like that's super cool. And like you have a varied background that's gonna create a diverse perspective into what we're trying to do. And if the person's smart, if they're capable, if they have that unique perspective, like that's intangible.

SPEAKER_00: 36:14

Real talk, Clark. You ready for some real talk? I'm ready. I delete the college education filter when I hire for roles. All I care about, all I care about is what is your previous experience? Or if you're a referral, who's the who's referring you and why? Right. Like when I hire for my team, I don't I don't give a rat shit about college at all. Because for everything we've said and more, but like the only thing I care about, what's the last job you had and what did you do? Right? What are you what are you most experienced with and what are you excited about? And and convince me why. But that's the story I want to hear. I do not care. I don't even look at education on the on if they're if they include it, I don't look at it because it does not matter to me in the slightest.

SPEAKER_01: 36:57

There's a reason it's at the bottom of the resume. It's because most hybrid managers are rarely gonna get to that, just to be completely honest. Like I don't scroll over to the bottom and be like, eh, MIT Harvard, sorry, you're you're out. Like that has never made a difference when I'm looking at I look at that history, and if I'm even remotely interested, I get on a call with that person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 37:19

And and I think that's that's the other thing, too, is you know, we we've talked about this a lot for freshers, but if you're a manager, if you're a leader, encourage this kind of behavior, right? Point to people you know that may not have the like I don't have a marketing degree, I don't have a business degree, and I'm I'm a director of marketing. I don't have that experience, but I've worked my way there and I've proven my myself to be the best marketer in the world, as mentioned in the previous podcast. Still true, by the way. Hasn't changed. Still am. Come at me, other marketers, you'll never beat me. Uh and the the point is education doesn't matter. What matters is the desire to learn and the desire to, you know, become better than you were before. And sadly, I think it's it's a two-prong approach. Like we need to help freshers find what they need to do better and faster, but also as leaders, we need to have a lot less pressure on freshers when it comes to their background and where they came from, what degrees they have, because the world is just not as friendly and it's it's way too rapid to expect what we've used to expect from these people.

SPEAKER_01: 38:26

Right. I 100% agree. And you kind of segue into something I wanted to also talk about is like if I were to go back, I would make more time to participate in things that would make me better in terms of being able to work with people. Like, I think that's what a lot of people don't do. Like, even in the college experience, like they hold up and they like you know, learn a ton and they don't talk to anybody, they don't participate in things. And to be honest with you, like sports are the reason I think I've been successful in my career because I was able to be a part of a team working towards a goal. You get to work with people you like and you don't like, and it's competitive too. So you kind of build like a healthy sense of camaraderie and competitiveness, and you know how to work on that team. And that's what I would encourage everybody. Like, I wish I explored more clubs, and I wish I explored things that I didn't think I'd ever be good at, but I was remotely interested in. Like maybe playing an instrument. I wish I tried it. I wish I went and like joined the band and like tried to play an instrument because those things, and to your point, like being a never-ending learner helps you understand what you like, what you don't like, but also helps you basically get the experience you need in an extracurricular to work inside the corporate world where things in the landscape is always changing. And you get to just work with people, which at the end of the day will never change. Like you will always have to deal with people in some way. And so I think those are the things I look back to say, if you're Not doing that, and you're a fresher, like you should start trying to find clubs, trying to find groups, trying to learn how to work with people, sports, whatever it is, so that way you can make yourself more well-rounded.

SPEAKER_00: 40:10

And I I agree with that because I did that, right? Like that was my background. Was I in theater, I was in chorus, I did robotics, I did simulation. Like I really explored all of the stuff there was to explore when I was learning. And I love that. I'm so grateful for it because I attribute a lot of that to my success. But what I wish I could go back and do is say, like, hey, there's no other opportunity to learn like there is right now. Like, yeah, as much as you hate this, like you're never going to get this again because society is not built this way. So enjoy, enjoy the libraries, enjoy the books, enjoy the meaningless assignments because the things you can learn outside of your career path that you will learn on the job, there's really no opportunity to learn in this fashion with this kind of education ever again. Right? Like, I wish I spent more time paying attention in chemistry. I wish I didn't just phone it in. Because I would love to know more about that now and learn it from an actual professor versus just going on YouTube and watching someone explain it to me in five minutes. Like they you cannot compare those two things. And that's what I would change for sure.

unknown: 41:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 41:16

Hey Clark, you want to start a band?

SPEAKER_01: 41:18

Yeah, you want to jam out. I mean, I have zero musical musical ability. I can't sing to save my life. I don't know what I would contribute, but sure, why not?

SPEAKER_00: 41:26

I can teach you how to play guitar and then I'll learn how to play piano and then we can start a really cool band. Or maybe I'll learn the drums. I think I'd be, I think I can do the drums like a madman. I'm I'm very rhythmically on it, you know? So I'll teach you guitar. I'll do drums and vocals. Okay. And then we just need uh, I don't know, like a saxophonist, and we're ready to go.

SPEAKER_01: 41:45

Corporate strategy is a band. Maybe I'd be a saxophone guy. I feel like I would be, you know what we maybe we should do? We create we should create a gnarly with a sax.

SPEAKER_00: 41:55

I'm just telling you this right now. Like, I'm imagining you with this hat and your hair right now, like with a with a full-blown saxophone in your checkered flannel shirt, you would look freaking gnarly. Like people would throw money in your hat, is all I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_01: 42:10

You imagine seeing the gnarly dude. Yeah, seeing me on the street just ripping out some sax tunes. All I'm just dying of it. I just sat up laughing at myself. Yeah, I think we create lo-fi corporate-based music together for the world. Saxophone, piano, low jazz beats on a guitar, maybe. That's what we do. That's our future.

SPEAKER_00: 42:37

I love it. I love it. I've actually been looking for a reason to uh purchase. I used to uh FBI, ignore this part. This is hypothetical. I I used to uh illegally acquire uh a little program called Ableton Live, and I was quite the songstress. I would just put songs together in the most fun and exciting ways. But since I've become a professional working adult, I don't legally acquire things anymore. So I've been looking for a reason to purchase an actual license for Ableton to make music again. So I think I think you're right. I think it's time. I think you and I do it form the corporate strat lo-fi band for corpo tunes.

SPEAKER_01: 43:17

Well, we also talked about, and this this I actually think we should finish ambient tunes of workplaces.

unknown: 43:23

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 43:24

We have a few. We have a few under our belt, and I think we need to figure out some way to mix and jam those up and release them.

SPEAKER_00: 43:32

Oh, you know what? I like I I really like this idea. So we we use the ambience as the backing track. Yeah, and then we will pontificate on like what instruments fit good over this, how do we make this into a relaxing jam? And then when you put your headphones on, even if you're working from home or a subway or an actual subway or the restaurant subway, you can put and you can be anywhere, you can be in the office hearing these these corpo jams. Mmm, how delicious is that!

SPEAKER_01: 44:00

Like pulling up corporate strategy, the podcast album of ambient workplace tunes, and you basically throw on the Mickey D's track, and you're just listening to that while you're jamming on some focused work and getting into flow state. I would love that. I would listen to that right now.

SPEAKER_00: 44:17

Oh, the sizzle of the Mickey D's fryer in the background. My goodness.

SPEAKER_01: 44:21

That would be incredible. Well, that's funny. I I want to take us back. I wanted to talk about this because I think it'd be helpful for people that are either going through a change right now and they're looking for some direction, or you know, the freshers out there that might need some guidance in this really strange time to be alive. And I think we've both been successful in our careers. And I attribute the the outcomes of like that I would reflect on is even though you have a traditional path, don't take the traditional path. Reach out, do internships, do things that you think you might actually be interested in, and you're gonna find your path, and then be around people, find extracurriculars, do activities that you're remotely interested in so you can truly take that time, like you said, Bruce, to figure out in this formidable time where you will never have like this in the future, to figure out what you like, what you don't like, how to work with people. And that is going to make you a more well-rounded individual in the workplace, and you're going to be successful at whatever you do.

SPEAKER_00: 45:22

This is a genuine not even trying to endorse ourselves plug for the Discord. If you are a fresher and you're like, I don't know what to do, come in, uh, you know, join the Discord, which we mentioned how to get in there earlier, it's in the show notes, and go into any one of our channels. There's a marketing you channel, there's the corporate strategy channel, you know, there's the human impact channel. There's so many places, but just say, hey, I am a fresher. You may have to say that. I mean, you could just say, hey, like I don't know what I should do or focus on. We've got a lot of different expertise in there, like way more expertise than Clark and I can just provide on this show. And I guarantee you, if you have a question, if you have a concern, a thought, you want some advice from seasoned professionals from all over the world of all different walks of life and all different kinds of corporations, ask it there and you will you will find answers aplenty. So please join the Discord if you feel that you are uh out of the loop in that way.

SPEAKER_01: 46:18

100%. And sorry for the the G-arkness of this episode where we had a couple blanks and audio. I think it all turned out fine. We'll we'll we'll listen to it back and just make sure it's all okay. It sounded a little funky in between. So hopefully, hopefully nothing went wrong.

SPEAKER_00: 46:32

Great, great. I uh blame G Ark. Blame G-Rk. You know, you know who did it. I know who did it. The last, I mean, the last time you had a really good episode, we interviewed Michael, the the marine engineer, and uh had to redo it. So we'd love to have to redo this. Re-rego through the villain arc and and never use the intro in the episode. Tricked you. It's just not gonna play. It's just not gonna play. We're never gonna play it. How dare you! Nope, not gonna happen. Well, sweet. I think we did it all. I think we did it all. Another one. All right, well, another one in the books. If you're interested, join the Discord. You already know how. If you want to support the show, you can do so by buying us a coffee. If you want to get some swag, you can do that in the link tree as well. Uh, there's all different kinds of ways you can help, but the most important one is to share this with your friends. So please consider sharing corporate strategy with someone you care about, a fresher perhaps, maybe you know some freshers that need some help. Send this podcast their way. Send this episode, this specific episode, send it to them because they might find it helpful. And if they don't, have them join the Discord and tell us why, and we will do our best to help them however we can. Uh, I think that does it for another episode of Corporate Strategy Podcast. It could have been an email. I'm Bruce. And you get no intro. None. No intro for you.