SPEAKER_01 0:18

Welcome back to Corporate Strategy, podcast that could have been an email. I'm Anthony.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

And I'm Michael. And holy cow, that was so professional.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

We're getting there. We're getting there. Goodness. One week, one show at a time. We are getting closer to being somewhat good at doing this.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

That was really, really cool. And I'm so happy you brought your brought your fake prop dog into our show today because I can just see her in that corner.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

She was like, it's like, you're looking at me. She wants access to the dog bed that's off screen. And uh there is another dog in there she doesn't want to share it with. So she is crying and trying to get access to the bed. It's great, great fun.

Microwave Etiquette Gets Ugly

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Let's relate this to a corporate workplace uh situation. You go into the bathroom and all the stalls are taken. All of them. I feel I feel like you're a little pup sitting in the bathroom just waiting awkwardly. You do that just to let them know. Or if someone's at like the coffee machine and you know you're gonna have to make small talk while they make their coffee, you're like, oh, here we go. Not this time, no, yeah, or the microwave, microwave is another good one.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Oh, microwave, you know, there needs to be rules. I I mean, I haven't worked in the office for almost a decade now, but there needs to be rules about microwaves, like written into HR law. Oh, yeah. Because people just do not know how to be respectful with the microwave in the break room, they just do not.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yeah, it's honestly, it was so bad where I worked that. I mean, we had cleaners and they would do a great job, but sometimes I would walk in there and I would just eat my food cold. I'm like, I'm not putting it in there, I'm just not gonna do it. I'm just gonna eat whatever I brought cold today.

Pitching The AI Microwave

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah, the the stink that was on whatever was cooked last, that's that's flying over to your food if you put in that microwave. Yeah, so don't do it. Don't do it. You know, product idea.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Oh, genius product idea. Oh should we stay on on stream or should we someone make this because I think you would make a lot of money. You build a tech AI friendly microwave that does a few things. One, you can pull up any sort of page, like a web page, and see which ones are in use and how long. And you can literally like look through it. It's got food detection, it can tell you what was cooked prior. It's got a camera, it can show you if it's messy or if it's clean, it can show the status of the microwave. And then you'll know in the office, I'm not going to third floor break room two today. I'm gonna go to second floor break room one for my microwaving.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

I mean, what you're describing is the fact that the the janitorial services are not doing a good job keeping up with the microwave. Yep, yep. Or it's we have to create a new pro a new software solution to solve for the fact that one, people aren't respectful with the microwave, and two, no one's cleaning it. Yep, you know. That's how we do it.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

We had a book episode. We had a book episode the other day where start with why was one of those. Yeah, this is a situation where I didn't do that at all. I just said we need to build this overly complicated things because that that's where my brain goes.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Right into solutioning. I love it. You know, that makes you a true product manager. So congratulations, you landed in the role you are perfect for.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah, for don't ask any questions, just decide what to build and tell people to start building it. That's exactly right.

Vibe Check And Pet Drama

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Good product manager, one-on-one. Hey, speaking of product managing, vibe vibration checklists. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 4:01

That was that was a good one, by the way. Um, yeah, actually, I'm doing well. It's been a good week. My uh my wife's a teacher, as I've said before, and she's on spring break this week. So we have been doing some fun project things around the house, some fun spending time with family and friends, and went on a boat, got some sun. It was it's been it's been great, man. Feeling well we're on a boat this week, huh? That must be so nice for you. It's not ours, but it's a friend's, and it was a it was a great, it was a great time.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

How how nice for you? I'm I'm happy for you. I'm so glad you had that experience.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

I can see in your eyes how thrilled you are for me, and thank you. You know what? You're your elateness for me being so well taken care of this week. I just I love that you do that.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

And might I say this water from my Dunkin' Donuts cup? So tell me, just sip your tea, sip your tea, not endorsed by Dunkin' Donuts, just thought it was funny. Um but I do have my thing.

Breaking The 4:45 AM Cat Habit

SPEAKER_00 5:04

I owe you credits for you. Yeah, I owe you credits, and this is actually you should be even happier for me because of this. So I've mentioned this on an episode long ago. Okay, I have a cat, and our cat has only been raised with dogs. She is a menace in the morning, so much so she'd be waking us up at like 4:45 in the morning because she is so hungry. And you and I, we got Boba tea, and you told me, Listen, the problem is you're associated with the food, and that it just it's it lit a light bulb for me in my head. I'm like, whoa, you're right. And so I started doing all this research, and I was like, okay, how can we do something different so that way we can actually disassociate ourselves with the food? And so what we did is we ended up getting an automatic food feeder that goes off at the same time every day, not right when we wake up, but a little bit after we feed the dog at the same time. And also, we started moving her interactive mice feeding thing around the house to be later as well. So that way it's like nice. Automatic food after a little bit we get up, it's totally dissociated from us. On weekends, we don't even get up, she just gets her food, and then she knows not to bug us until way later to get it. And it's worked like a dream. I'm I shouldn't say it's too loud because I need to knock on wood. It's she's gonna regress, but it took time, it took like weeks of being like strict about it and tweaking it slightly and not giving in when she wanted that attention. And I think we finally broke it and we actually get to sleep in today. It was fantastic. Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Hey, you're welcome. I am happy to help. There are a few things I know a few things about, and uh living in a house with three nightmare dogs, animal behavior has just become one of them. So it's uh, you know, I'm glad because that's gonna make your life so much better.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Yeah.

Frazzle-Brained Work Travel

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Um vibe check for you. Um vibe check for me. I'm doing I'm doing a little okay. Uh it has been a crazy freaking okay. I'm a little okay. Crazy week. It's it's been just a lot. It's been a lot. I'm going to San Fran in like two days. So it is uh just a lot for me right now. And I've got a lot in flux. I'll be so happy once I'm through this this current phase of project that I'm in, and I'll be better. But right now I am I'm frazzle brained, as they say. You're you're getting the frazzle brained, Anthony, today. So I'm sorry. I'm sorry in advance.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

How long are you in San Fran for? Two days. Okay, so at least it's a quick trip.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Well, it's it's one day to get there, one day to get back, and two days in the middle. So I mean it's not it's not quick, but it's yeah, it's still travel.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

It's work travel. We've done episodes on this. It's I hate it. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

I hate it. I just I hate going to the West Coast. Like, there is nothing I like worse than going to West Coast. Just my least favorite trip because it's so long to get there on the flight.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

And I love going there. I don't love coming back. Going there is coming back. Really? For me, it's the opposite of getting there. You're like, I left at 6 this morning and it's 8 30 or 9 when I get there.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Yeah. I mean, I I don't mind it from that because I'm I'm I'm actually leaving like later in the day, so I can kind of get there at night, which will be really late my time, but like not too late, kind of thorny time, with the hope that I can get to my Monday morning meeting, uh, pretty, pretty jazzed and refreshed. But uh coming back, I don't know. Like, one, it's a shorter flight coming back because you got that tailwind, which is always nice. It's it's like six hours going over, five hours coming back. But then I mean, low-key, the nice thing about coming back from California for work is you come back at like eight in the morning, you land at five in the afternoon. So it's like, oh, I worked today.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

I didn't fly. Yeah, I always torture myself because I need like whenever I travel to the West Coast, I would always want to like make the most out of the trip. So I usually get there like Monday early ish afternoon, and then I'd I would take like a late flight on Thursday or Friday, and so I would torture myself because I'd be leaving at six o'clock Pacific just to get back at like 8 30 or 9 o'clock Eastern. And then that that just bleeds in your weekend, whenever I had to do that, it bleeds in your weekend. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

I I generally try never to travel on weekend for work. This time is unavoidable just because of Monday morning meetings, but yeah, I get that. It's tough. Is what is sad.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

So is your will you be better after the trip? Or you have to finish like the project of going.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Okay, so this is good. This is good. I yeah, the the trip is a very much an end cap for a lot of work that has been said for me. So once I'm back, then I'm more single focused, which is where I like to be.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah, okay, good. So the vibe check next week should be much better.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Vibe check next week. I'm off. So I'm taking off Thursday and Friday to recover from the travel. So I think I'll be prime time. I was gonna say prime Bruce. Who the hell is Bruce? Be prime Anthony on Friday. You're gonna see. Ooh, we might have to just do it. Someone on top of the world. We should do it at Burger King. We should.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Yeah, it'd be a great time.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Let's go do it at McDonald's.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Let's do it live in the McDonald's.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Come on. Ooh, let's let's do a Burger King stream.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Oh man, I don't I don't know one if any exists near us anymore. I think the only one that I know of closed down, so I have no idea where Burger King even is. And two, we're gonna get food poisoning 110. That's why we have to do it. That's why we have to do it. I literally, when was the last time you had a Burger King? How many years do you think it's been?

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Uh actually it was at the airport. It was it was literally at the airport traveling. I can't remember where I was going or when I was there, but like I was like, uh, I can get a vegan burger at Burger King. So that's what I'm gonna get.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

I actually used to like their shout outs to Burger King's vegan burger, like it's really good. Yeah, it's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Yeah, well, they always made good burgers, like that was the thing about Burger King, is like you don't go there for anything else, but you get a good burger. The last time I've been there is probably when they announced chicken fries. And how long ago do you think that was? Oh, long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

That was a long time ago, and those were horrible. That was actually like barely food. Um yeah, yeah.

Fast Food CEOs And Authenticity

SPEAKER_00 11:32

There's some things like Burger King mattress stores that have been around forever, that you're like, these are money laundering schemes, right? Like someone's just siphoning money through these locations because how do they stay open?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

I mean, I will say this like you saw the whole CEO eating a burger drama that occurred over the last couple of weeks, right? Like Burger King's response to that was primo. Primo.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

I don't know that I've even seen this.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

What is what is see you leave you leave working in an office and you you lose your touch on reality. Um basically on all of the the the networks, there has been there started with a video of the CEO of McDonald's. See, this is this is when we would be able to share this actual clip on the stream because we have this utility now. But I digress. He's he's eating like the CEO is like, I'm going to eat a McDonald's burger. Humph. That's delicious, and like it's the most cringe, weird uh reaction to a burger. Like, I'm gonna have a good rest of my lunch, and then like everyone ripped on him. They're like, Wow, like this guy's fake, doesn't actually eat his own food, like not real. And then the Burger King CEO like shows up to a random Burger King kit. You know it's a real Burger King because it's like dirty. He's like in a real Burger King kitchen, he's got an apron over his like CEO wear. He shows up, he's like, Hey, give me that burger. He takes, he just takes a big honk and bite out of it. He's like, You know what? You know what I need? A napkin. I'm like, dude, okay, that's a pretty ball in response. Like, oh yeah, this is this is how you do it. And then like the Arby's, maybe maybe it was Wendy's, like all these burger CEOs started doing videos of them eating their own burgers, but I think Burger King really handled it the best. Uh because it looked dirty, and I'm like, this is authentic.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Like they know what a Burger King is. See, in the age of like AI slop, authenticity is what, like, and especially in marketing, it's gonna be what wins. So, like, yeah, I actually I love that. The I saw like I saw kind of a cringy, I don't even know where I saw it, because when you said it brought it to mind for me. I saw like new Costco CEO was he went and bought, like they filmed him buying and eating a$1.25 hot dog, and they were just like the Burger King thing. Yeah, might have been. Maybe that's maybe it's all just coming together. But he they they they only asked him one question like, so is the price of the hot dog going to change? Like, not anytime soon. Yeah, I love that guy's a ball answer.

Why Direct Answers Feel Hard

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Yeah, Costco. Uh Costco's a real one. Uh, if we want to talk about like unofficial but official corporate strategists, Costco. Just yeah, you you're doing the real. Um, hey, you know, I think that's actually a pretty good transition into today's topic, which isn't about work, but you said authenticity. And I was like, oh, good, good, good, good. You're in the right headspace for this. So it is and it isn't about work. And my wife and I were actually talking about this at lunch today. I'm like, this has got to be our topic we talk about. It's communication, it's direct communication, it's about being authentic. And we've noticed this trend. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. But in today's age, this is a very American problem. So I already uh I want to apologize ahead for our European uh listeners and viewers. In today's age, we have a real problem being direct and telling people just factual truths, right? Um, you invite someone out to say, hey, we're doing a birthday dinner for our friend. Do you want to come? Silence. Now, the appropriate response for you, the sender, to the person who is giving you silence is yes or no. Like, are you coming or not? Give me a response. Like, I need to know. But instead, we we kind of just do this gentle, like, I don't want to upset them. I don't want to make them upset when in reality they are being rude by not responding to you. Um, it's we're in this really weird stage now where we never want to really like dig in and call someone out for being a bad communicator, for being just a bad human being because we might hurt their feelings. And I actually I brought up when I was talking about this with my wife, I was like, you know, you know who doesn't have this problem is Michael and I. Because we are such direct communicators. Like, nah, that doesn't work for me. Uh, can you do this? Like, no, I I can do this, I can do that. Like, we are very direct. There is no bargaining. There is no like, oh, I'm worried I'm gonna hurt his feelings. Right. We have a really good thing, but in all honesty, I don't have that with many people. Now I do have it in work, which is weird. I feel much more comfortable being direct with my coworkers and saying, here's when we're gonna do this, here's the schedule. I need a response from you by you know 12 p.m. Thursday. Otherwise, we're moving ahead without you. Like it's very easy for me to do that. But with a with an acquaintance or a friend or someone I know outside of work, very hard because I'm just oh no, I hope I don't upset them and make them cry or hate me because I've been direct with them. Uh thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Well, I think it's everything that you said. It's like it's turned into an emotional thing. And one thing that you it's actually funny you say this because my wife and I were also talking about this for something totally different, but it also is relevant, is a non-answer is an answer. And I don't know if you feel that way too, but like if you decide not to answer, like that is an answer. Like you made a decision. Like, if you're not gonna say yes, then the answer is probably no, especially if it's just inconsiderate to your point of like if something goes past the date of something starting or it's the day of, and you're like, I tried to talk to them last week, like they're not just gonna show up, probably not. Some people might, but it's like you by not answering, you told me you're not gonna be there. And I don't know if you've ever seen it work the opposite way. You think so? If you not if you don't answer, you think they'll show up?

SPEAKER_01 17:35

No, but I mean, you can't not answer. That's not okay. No, I agree. I know I'm not coming.

Indecision And Emotional Avoidance

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, I think that's people need to be feel empowered to say no. Yeah, I think because people are worried about the emotional aspect, like that's what it is, and even at work, I I saw it too all the time, working in corporate environments. Like people decided or they decided not to make a decision, so they were stuck in this loop of indecision because they knew they didn't want to give a bad answer, they didn't want to disappoint somebody, they didn't want to make someone mad, they didn't want to say no. And I I think that is like it's a matter of people making it emotional when they make decisions. And the the reality is, and like people would ask me all the time, like, how do you get through like all your communication so fast? And it's because I don't make it emotional, I just answer and I give them an answer, and sometimes the answer is no, and they're not gonna like the answer. But it's better than you know, just waiting at the bay and like them having to follow up two weeks later and being like, so are we gonna do this? And then I answer no. Now I just wasted everybody's time and baited them on thinking they're gonna get this thing and they're not. And so I think that's like my feeling on it is you have to answer, and if you do it, it actually takes more things off your plate and off your shoulders, and people will be happier with you. Like you and me, like what you just said, it's like as we're trying to schedule this time that we do this podcast. If it doesn't work for us, we're just like, no. But then we follow up with, what about this? Because this will work for me, and we go back and forth, and we don't feel any emotional response to that. It's just a fact. Like, I don't think you're doing it to get on my bad side, or you're being selfish in what time you want to do it, or you want to do it on your schedule. It's just, I know you're being factual, I know you're not being emotional about it. Do you um like in this case, in work, do you see it in other people? Like you said, work, you're better at it, but do you see other people doing it to you?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

I I try to keep I I think with me it's easier because I'm very much what you see is what you get. And I tell people, especially like my team and the people I work with, like, look, you're not gonna hurt my feelings. Uh, I've had some of the worst stuff said about me at work. So, whatever you say, really, you know, if you top it, congratulations. Like, that's a that's a very high bar to get across because I have just heard some heinous things spoken to my face by people about me. So I feel like, and I I actually told all my teammates this today, I was like, you never have to worry about offending me. I dare you to try. Like, I really want to see you try because I don't think you can eclipse some of what I've received in my work history. But but outside of like me personally, I do give off an energy of like, come talk to me. There is nothing off the table, there's nothing that you should be afraid of. And I'm gonna talk to you that way. So you should talk to me that way. Like, be direct, tell me what you're thinking, tell me what you need, tell me what you want. If you don't want to do it, tell me you don't want to do it. And it's I've never really had that problem with my team or the direct people I work with at work. I have it outside of work. Um and I I don't know why. And maybe it's just because you know, we talked about CAC last week. When it comes to culture, I am the culture, right? That was a joke that I it wasn't really a joke, it's a true statement about me. I do influence and bring the culture where I work, especially in my direct sphere of influence. So I bring that culture of directness, openness, honesty, and it it percolates to those around me. I cannot make that happen in my personal life.

No Thank You Is Powerful

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah. Well, I feel like it's a little bit of you're at the startup, you're at a startup. And when you're at a startup, like there is no time to not have an answer. Yes. And you have to fight the most urgent fire or drop everything to tackle an opportunity that comes up. Like in your stage of work, that's not an option. But in bigger corporations, it absolutely is. You can just sit on something for months and never tell people the truth or give them an answer. And as a product manager who controlled the roadmaps, like this was something I was always a yes man, and I would always try everything to get everything done. And I had some hard lessons in my career of like, you can't do that. And you actually will be better off if you say no to this person so they can go off and find a better solution for their burning problem and not wait for you to give them an answer. Now they're three months without the thing that they need. It's like tell them no, and they'll appreciate you later. Later on, because now they can go solve the problem and they'll know they'll get a direct answer from you next time and won't have to sit around waiting.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

I think one of the most powerful phrases you can use, and uh I'm I'm curious what like European equivalent of this is. Yeah, but as an American, I think one of the most powerful phrases you can use, especially outside of work, is no thank you. Um, you know, someone's like, hey, we're going out to this restaurant tomorrow night, we're gonna try it out. You interested? No, thank you. Like, you don't need to come up with an excuse, you don't need to come up with a reason. No, thank you is very polite. And it's it's a very nice way to say, like, hey, not for me, right? Like, uh if if you if on the off chance you are interested in the future, you can say, no thanks this time, but let me know next time you're doing something like that. Like, I think one of the problems is people get so in their heads if I say no, I'm gonna hurt their feelings. It's like, nah, there are actually ways you can respond to this. And like both in life and at work, right? Like, if if it works, someone's like, Hey, can you do this for me? It's like, listen, we talked about this last week. We talked, we talk about this a lot. It's like, listen, I got a stack full of work right now. I want to say yes, but something's gotta come off the stack. Can you help me identify which of these things is a lesser priority than what you're asking for right now? Like, yeah, corporate speak requires a lot more words and negotiating, but you're still saying no effectively, right? And like, no is a powerful word or yes, but like yeah, folks gotta get better at communicating and being open and direct about what is or isn't working or what they are or aren't interested in, because I think we're we're vastly approaching this state of wishy-washiness that is just perpetually aggravating.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah. Well, and you said, like, no, you gotta get better using the word no, but no is a sentence. No, period. It's true. That can be true. Like you don't have to have niceties, you can just say no. And like don't have to follow up at all. And I feel like because of the emotional tie to it, it's like, yeah, what you said, you don't want to disappoint people, you don't want to miss out on the next opportunity that comes up because you said no this time. But if you truly are interested, like if you're not interested at all, just say no. Like, nope, I'm good. You don't you don't need to justify your reasoning, right? But if you are interested, or if you know you care about this person and you feel like you really wanted to help them, you just can't this time, you can express that in a lot of different ways. Like you can just be like, hey, I really appreciate you, Anthony, thinking of me for this. Unfortunately, I can't, you know, but maybe I'll be available next time. And we did this because we had uh I I invited you guys to come to you know a cooking class, my my wife's dad. Yeah, and you guys had something come up. And like I could have taken it to heart, and you guys said, Hey, sorry, can't make it, like we got this thing going on. And like, I could have taken that to heart, or you know, my father-in-law couldn't have taken that to heart, but he didn't because it's like, okay, that's fine. Like, I know you guys, if you want to come again, come again. But it's no big deal. You don't have to do that. Like, I'm not, I don't feel any tie to you. And if you felt that way and like you gave me a justified response, I would have felt back so like, hey, listen, it's okay. Like, I'm fine, you're fine, I'm fine, we're good.

When Silence Erodes Relationships

SPEAKER_01 25:15

It's funny too, because like in in that instance, I believe I even said, like, I am really interested in doing this. Like, please let me know when the next one is because I want to go. But like, if you said, Hey, Anthony, I'm gonna go dirt biking through the forest. Do you want to join? Like, uh, I don't think that's safe, nor am I interested, but thank you. But I would say that to you, and you wouldn't be offended because you'd know, like, nah, Anthony, not a dirt biker, you know, like that's not absolutely that's not what he does. So we definitely have this. And I mean, I know you and I have this with our wives, I know we do this with our friends, but the the really annoying thing is just not receiving it back. And I'm trying to figure out do we become meaner? Right? Like, is the is the response to become meaner and say, Hey, you didn't respond to me. I need a response. Respond, right? Like throw it in them and be like, you need to give me a response, whether it's yes or no, I don't care. But what I want is a response. Like, is that appropriate? Is this is this what it's coming down to?

SPEAKER_00 26:20

I feel like you have to figure out on the personal side if is this someone that doesn't have to be in your life? You know what I mean? Like, like if it's family, or let's say you can choose who's family, but you can't choose who's like blood related. If it's a blood relationship and it's like, hey, I'm kind of stuck with you, whether I want to be or not. Like in that case, I think you do have to be direct, or even really close friends. Like, you need to be direct and be like, hey, listen, I don't appreciate when I invite you to something and you just choose not to respond. Like next time, just tell me no. Like, I think that's got to be the society that we want to build of like giving that feedback to let them know what they're doing is not okay. Because if we just always just don't do anything about it, then nothing will ever change, you know? Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Well, and you know, it it's funny because at work, when I send an email to a contractor who's doing work for me that I've paid for, and they don't respond, you better believe in 24 hours bumping this to the top of your inbox. You want to know what's up. Like, it's so easy. It's so easy if it's a if it's a col even the fun like going upwards, right? Like, I need the CEO's approval on an SOW I need signed, and I need to sign this SOW by end of week. You better believe, like, hey, uh, you want to make sure you got eyes on this. When do you plan on signing it? Like, it is so easy to do it work, and there's no offense. Like, I know the CEO is not gonna get offended, I know the contractor I'm working with is not gonna get offended. Like, me pushing them, no offense. But if I'm talking to a friend and I'm like, hey, I sent you a message, you didn't respond. Just get this to the top of your chat. Like, I feel like, oh, Anthony's kind of mean, Anthony's kind of a jerk.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

You know, it's funny because I think part of it is a fear of following up. And I'm saying this on like your end, or like as we see it, when we're talking to people of like, you don't want to be like annoying to be like, hey, that that dot. Like, yo, what's going on? It's funny. I met with um, I met with someone last week that is is all like they're a pretty big deal around where we live. Oh, and like, yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna name drop, but like I followed up a week later about something because they said they were gonna do something, and like after I followed, like, oh, thank you so much. Like, I jumped right into something after we met, like I'm gonna get to you after the following week or whatever. But they appreciated that I follow up because they're like, Listen, I just got busy, like, and that made me feel better because I I did feel bad. I was like, I man, I don't want to follow up this person. It's been a week, but they said they were gonna do it in a day, so I, you know, I'm just gonna follow up. And that was a good lesson for me because they were like, Listen, I'm I'm busy, I just forgot. Thank you for following up because you reminded me, I'll get it with my secretary or whoever, and we'll figure this out. And so, like, that was a good lesson on the other side of being like, it's okay to follow up with people, but if you do keep on following up and they never respond, you know, I'm curious on your perspective on this. For me, I think that's just when you start dropping off on things. Like in the workplace, if someone misses an opportunity, it's like, and then they reach out a week later, hey, so sorry, is that opportunity still available? It's like, no, like I hired someone else, you didn't get the job because you were not responsive. That's a hard question in the workplace. In life, I feel like that's the same too, being like, hey, why are you like not sending me things to hang out anymore? Like, why aren't you ever reaching out? It's like, because every time I did, you didn't answer. So I'm not just gonna keep on wasting my energy and time knowing I'm never gonna hear from you and the relationship is just gonna falter. I don't know if you have any any thoughts too on like the corporate and personal side, but like that's the way I look at it.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

No, I I love that because I do that too, right? Like, I'm not the best texter. You know this about me, and I will say thank you for the reminder, right? Like when I drop the ball, I always follow up with a thank you for the reminder. I I totally this totally slipped my mind. I think I'll take accountability. Like, I am not great at responding in certain mediums. If it's email, if it's slack, if it's work, I'm pretty on the ball. But things slip off. So one, I do respond with thank you for the reminder, or if it's if it's super egregious that I'm so sorry, this this fell off my radar. Perfect corporate speak, by the way. This fell off my radar. Let's let's incorporate more military terms into our radar.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

I'll circle back with you next week.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Let's launch a campaign to destroy the enemy on this, okay? And then don't let it fall off your radar, all right? Because we need to know where they are so we can nuke the competition. You know, just really nice, sane, easy corporate speak that everyone should incorporate in their their day-to-day lives. Um in life, though, is harder because you know, usually when you are the initiator and you send, like, hey, we're going out to play pickleball this weekend, want to join? Like, that's not that's not like an email that requires a lot of thought. It's a yes or no. So then you're like, Well, it are they, I need I gotta get a head count here for pickleball. I gotta bring enough towels so that those stinkers don't sweat up the court. Like, you in or you out, McFly? Like, what do you say? You know, like what do you say?

Timebox Plans Like A Project

SPEAKER_00 31:36

And that's where I struggle, right? I think it's when you follow up and you're like, hey, locking down headcount, need to know by today. Like, I think the tactics you use is like you you time box it. Like, if I don't hear back from today, I think it's just like in the corporate world of like if you need a response urgently, you do it very similar. You're like, hey, I'm gonna assume if I don't hear today, the answer is yes, I'm moving on. And I think that's like a way you could do it in the personal life like, hey, locking down the headcom. If I don't know today, I'm gonna invite someone else.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

So, what I'm taking away here is actually we have solved this problem in the corporate world, and we need to bring the corporate strategy to the real physical space. Like we don't start using like no, this this cycle doesn't happen often. Usually it's personal work. Now it's used corporate stuff in life. Yeah, like I'm I'm thinking about this now. Like, anytime I've had an issue with this, had I just gone corporate and been like, can out we bury out you you went you went away, you're back.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Was it me or was it you? I don't know. Your screen went white for me, and that's all I saw. We're trying a new platform, so everyone bear with us.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

I need uh I I need uh uh an end of an end of second response from you, if it was you or if it was me.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Uh please let me know by the end of the stream. Otherwise, we're trying a different platform. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Otherwise, this is over. This is done. We're we're shutting down the entire podcast, uh, quitting it for real this time. No, I I think you're absolutely right. I think I think this is the way, and I'm gonna have to actually take this information back to my wife because she doesn't work in corporate, you know. Like this is not, she's not a corporate citizen like we are. I'm there, I gotta teach her the lingo, right? Circle back. Uh and I need a response by end of day, end of week, end of month, end of life. Like, you need to tell me when. Uh, and then assuming you're out, like just no response means no, like, start really throwing out there some good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Yeah, I think those could be good tips. Those those are good tips because unfortunately, like the whole corporate is like a psychological game. Yeah. It's like how you deal with people, how you climb the ladder, learning how to work with people, learning what incentives are to people versus motivators, detractors. Life's the same way. It's like part of the deal. It's like you gotta sometimes you gotta dangle the carrot for somebody, you know, and be like, hey, if you come, we're gonna have your favorite dessert tonight. Yeah. If you don't come, you guess you don't get your favorite, like you gotta find, well, what are they interested in? Can I bait them into this? Is so terrible. Can I bait them into coming? You know, to whatever. Right? Like, if you if you need bait, do you want them to join? Exactly. You should be asking that question. You know, if you really want someone, you do need to find an incentive for them. But if you're like, okay, they're not even gonna respond, then you need to have the right deadlines of someone who doesn't give you a prompt response. Be like, hey, let me know by Saturday, otherwise, you know, I'll invite someone else.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

I I like this because if it's an if it's an uh obligate obligatory, obligatory invite. You're obliged to invite them because they're part of your friend circle, they're part of your group, whatever. Then you time box it, where you say, Hey Janice, we're going to see Hamnet this weekend. Best movie of 2025, by the way. We're gonna see Hamnet this weekend.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

2025 or 2026?

SPEAKER_01 35:11

2026. I think it got it won the 2025 Oscars. It got best actress, deserved by the way, Jesse Buckley, magical actor. Um I think it came out in 2025, but like it kind of whatever. We're gonna go see Hamnet this weekend. It's the best movie of 2026. I need to know by end of day if you're going to be joining us so I can plan seats. Like, like that is you could see that in a corporate email, right? Like, we are going to be going to this event. I need to know if you're in so we can plan for the dinner, like RSVP. Otherwise, we will move on with that. Like, by time boxing it, you force a response, which brilliant. Like, let's uh let's just bring all corporatisms into real life. I think what I've learned is like I need to treat real life like a business. I need to be business Bruce in real life and then be Anthony in corporate.

Netflix Culture And Business Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Well, it is funny because I think corporate is at least big corp is getting it's bringing more and more personal and emotional things into it that negatively affect the whole cycle. You know what I mean? Like exactly what we were talking about earlier. It's like people are doing this, I know, in in the corporate space where they just won't answer things because they're afraid of like the response, they're afraid of missing out on an opportunity if they say no, they're afraid of how people are going to react. And it's like those are personal things. Business is business, and you have to separate personal and business. It was funny. I was listening to uh good podcast, uh, how I built this guy Ross. Um, but he had Reed Hastings on from Netflix, and one, I forgot that Netflix almost sold to Blockbuster at one point in time, which is crazy. I forgot about streaming blockbuster video. Like, imagine if that was Netflix.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Well, I think that we'd still have Blockbusters. Like, I think had Blockbuster bought Netflix, we would actually still have physical video rental locations. Because yeah, there was that dip, but I think a lot of people today actually would appreciate the ability to go into a physical store and like take a take a disc with them. Uh but I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

I feel like streaming and original content was inevitable that it would have put that out.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Exclusive. The problem, the problem is, I mean, we can't, we we cannot go down this rabbit hole, but we'll never leave. The problem is because of because of the way streaming contracts work, it is so much more tight and like uh contractually obligated to what you can and cannot stream in certain geographical locations, whereas the physical location, you could host pretty much whatever movie you bought in license out. Like there was there were easier agreements for physical media. And you know, hey, I I can't watch Hamnet on Netflix because it's exclusively streaming on Mac. But if I go to my local Netflix location, I can get the Blu-ray for Hamnet, best movie of 2025 and 2026. And I can see Jesse Buckley's magical acting in my home on 4K HD Blu-ray, which is a better way to watch movies anyway. Just, you know, if you want the quality on your 4K Ultra HD OLED 77 inch screen that you bought, why are you streaming in the worst quality possible? Yeah, it said it's 4K, but like, I mean, do you want those crushed blacks? No, you want to go get a 4K Ultra HD disc to play in your PlayStation 5 Pro that you've also bought and spent money on. So, like, what's wrong with you? I feel like this is doing yourself a disservice.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

This may be a one-of-one problem that we need to take to our Patreon uh community that pays and just have this debate. We can have this debate for probably hours.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Coming to a Patreon exclusive cast, the Stream Wars.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

They put out a 127-page culture document. And why they did it was in response to people getting into Netflix and then not being happy there. And one of the lines in there that like blew up, I forget, I don't even remember what year it was, but when they put this out, one of the lines in it was adequate performance results in a generous severance package. And that like blew up because it basically said if you just perform adequately and you want job stability, that's not here. And they lay off, I forget the percentage, they lay off like 9% of their workforce every single year because it's all about the the um analogy they gave was around a sports team. It's like a sports team, players get traded all the time for performance reasons. They get cut from the team. It's not personal, it's business. They understood it going on to the team that I need to perform if I want to stay on the team, if I want to get paid. And if not, I could get traded. They could just trade me away to another company, or I could be cut from the team. And like that's the way Netflix looks at it. It's like it's not personal, it's not hard to make these decisions. It's saying, would I be willing to keep them and fight for them on my team? If the answer is no, they deserve to go, and we'll give them a nice severance package. Goodbye. If the answer is no, they deserve to go. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

You said that. I just I know I like that. You said it back and it sounded better. I like it too, but I I feel like this is insane. I feel like Netflix has an insanely toxic culture. Uh you're you're spawning on it over here, and I'm just like, I would punch Netflix in the face. And now I I mean, I did I I did just resubscribe to Netflix. Shoutouts to Jojo's Bizarre Adventure season seven, arc, arc seven, excuse me, real fans know part seven, best part. Let's go. First episode out yesterday. Let's go, Jojo. Let's go happen. Holy shit. Uh okay, yeah, that's that was my point.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Oh, good. Well, yeah, circling all the way down to the whole thing we were talking about, is like that takes the personal stuff out of it. So you don't have to worry about the personal stuff and emotional stuff. It's like you probably get response there because you're working with a bunch of higher performers, and if people just sit on things, they're gonna be gone. You're gonna be gone. Yeah, you're gonna be gone. And like I kind of like, and I think there's a balance between this, like, there has to be some, especially you know, on the more personal side, you have to be aware of the relationships you have and don't damage those relationships. But also on the work side, keep business business, keep the personal stuff out of it. And I think the world's gonna be a better place.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

But I I you know, just to kind of close this out, I think your tips here and like what you kind of put me on to of bringing this more corporate speak into your daily conversation, it actually will help bring results because that's what it's designed for, right? So, you know, is as weird as it is, maybe bring in some of that into your language if you're having trouble communicating with people in real life. I don't think it's gonna come off as weird or just direct as hey, why don't you respond to me? Do you not like me? Do you hate my guts? Do we are we not friends anymore? Yeah, and instead take a more proactive initial approach, which and separate the emotion out.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

Just know it like I'm gonna do this, just let them know. Listen, and you can even tell them if you feel bad about telling them, be like, listen, this isn't because I don't like you, it's just because I need to know. And because you didn't respond, sorry, like I've got to make a decision here, and it just takes so much less or more stress, I guess, out of the situation because you don't have to be always worried about that. And then also you gave a friend or someone family feedback that they probably need to be a better person overall.

A Pledge To Be More Direct

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Yeah, yeah. And uh, you know, I think that leads to the world being a better place, just in general. I agree. I think all of us do this, let's all do this. Let's all do this with each other. I'm taking a pledge. I'm gonna be more direct. I'm gonna pledge. I'm gonna I pledge to be a more direct communicator in text with my friends. Scout's honor. Is this scout? What is this? I'm pretty sure that's scout's honor. I think this is like what the Pope does before he like murders somebody, right? He's like excommunicado, uh, murder you. Yeah, I think that's what happens. Like, and then like the demon spurts forth. Is that actually like how they do exorcisms? These are the things you miss if you listen to the audio only podcast. You can see the hand gestures just saying.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

I always actually forget that this is an audio podcast mainly, and like people should probably watch on YouTube if you want to be sufficiently entertained.

Support The Show And Join In

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Uh, sufficiently agree. Also, sufficiently just want to thank everybody for uh doing what we told you to do last week. You know, very rarely when we tell you to do something, does it happen? But like quite a few of you went and left comments on the videos. So thank you. Um we see you, we appreciate you. And if you want to continue to help out, sign up for our Patreon, whether you're free or whether you are paid. We would really appreciate that. We are trying out a different streaming platform today than we've tried in the past. This platform could majorly change how we approach live streaming and kind of get us into some more venues where we can do more guests. We could do like multiple guests, we could do screen shares and show things in real time and react to things. So this could really upgrade how we do the live stream. Um, but it costs money. So if you are financially inclined and you find what we do to be helpful, we have a one dollar tier. Like literally, you could help us out for a dollar a month, and that would be a huge benefit to us and allow us to expand what we do into more interesting and fun horizons for you. So thanks for the help you've done so far, and please continue to help.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Please. That was really good. Also, if you think about our last episode where it was live reactions to things, not only is it better on YouTube, but if we were able to show the video and you were able to react to what they said, that'd be even better. So yeah, think about the possibilities. All you got to do is subscribe to Patreon.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

That's right. And uh at a minimum, subscribe to our YouTube and continue to leave comments every time you can. We would really appreciate that. 100%. Uh, do we have anything else? Oh, you know what? We should save, we should save the is it AI for when we can actually show it. Because then we can do it.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Yeah, you know, like okay, I'm not gonna reveal it. I know I'm a little behind, anyways. It was in earlier March, but yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Yes. Uh, and for those who want to play the game, uh, we do have a Discord still. We'll have a Discord for a little bit longer. We are looking at alternative platforms. Uh Michael's actually done some pretty good work on an alternative platform that we need to continue to figure out how we're going to make the swap to. But for the time being, join our Discord. You can support the Patreon, you can go to our website, you can do all the fun things by clicking on the link tree. It is in both the YouTube video notes as well as your podcast show notes on whatever podcast player you use. So please click that, check out all the places we are, join our Discord, join the conversation, and uh join a cult. Hey, Michael, I just want to thank you. You know what? Thank you for being such a great co-host. This show really is like a 60-40, and you do carry the 60 40% of the time. So I just want to thank you for that.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

I lived on the other side of the coin today where I just showed up and you had everything ready, you had the topic. And I'll be honest, it's a pretty good life. We may just want to do this all the time.

Closing Banter And Sign Off

SPEAKER_01 46:28

You know what? I appreciate that idea. I appreciate that idea from you, from your mouth. No, I appreciate you. This doesn't happen without you. So thank you. Yeah, you know, it it can happen without you, otherwise, it would just be my insane ramblings. And I'm sure there's an audience for that, but it's probably much smaller than the one we have. So thank you. All right, y'all. Uh, I think that does it for another episode of Corporate Strategy, the podcast that could have been an email. As always, I'm Anthony and I'm Michael. I still want to say Clark every time, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

If we close every time.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Single syllable names just felt better.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

They did.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

They felt great. I'm Bruce, I'm Clark. Hey, and you're on mute. We'll see you next week. But now it's like I'm Anthony. I have three syllables, and everyone calls me Andrew. It's a great name. All right, I'm Ant and I'm Mike. We'll see you next week. Okay, no, that that doesn't work. That makes it sound like we're shock jocks from like the 90s. Like, hey guys, tune into the Ant and Mike show. Honk honk. We're testing tunes in your ears all day long. I need a sound. I'm gonna say something that's probably a slur.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

That's like Mike and Mike in the mornings. This is like the and Mike in the evenings, late night and Mike.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

This can work. This can work. I don't like it. I do not like it. I feel like it's a one-way trip to getting canceled. It brings a bad energy, a real negative energy.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Oh, I love it. I can't wait. Uh I can't wait for and mic.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Tune in on our uh on our Patreon. It's gonna be great. Patreon. That's right. We have exclusive content. So, you know, even though we already said our goodbyes, we do have exclusive content on Patreon for our paid members only. And we have a good one. We're gonna add more. Tune in, check it out. Okay, that's it. For real this time, goodbye. We love you. We think you're great. I'm Anthony. And I'm Michael. And you're on mute. We will see you next.